Newbie - To horn or not to horn (Image Dynamics)

SP33DKILLS

Hello to all fellow 370z owners. I just purchased a 2012 Nismo (0% financing… waaaaaaa?) and I can’t help but notice how terrible the sound is. I’ve read a ton of posts before posting myself, but my question revolves around the terrible imaging/imaging presence in the cabin. At one time I was a huge car stereo fanatic and as such in my day the dream was to have a pair of Soundworks HCLDs. So, to this day I dream of one day having horns in my car.

Being a fan of Image Dynamics, I was wondering about the CD Pro Compression Horns and if anyone has experience with these horns. I love the idea of them since they allow me to place the highs much closer to the 6.5” door speakers. I also like the fact I don’t have to bounce the tweeters/highs off the windshield with the front facing horns and I feel it will strongly improve overall sound and staging.

My questions are as follows:

• Anyone have these (or similar) in their vehicle?
• Are horns outdated with the newer super premium component speakers?
• I have $450 to spend on the horns or anyone convincing me there are far superior component speakers available. Just hate the tweeter placement. FYI, runner up would be Focal 165 V30 or similar.
• Strong recommendations for 6.5” speakers if I go the horns route. With quality horns, I believe I would want to go with a bass heavy 6.5” speaker to complement.
Phase I –
Kenwood head unit, still undecided, but something in the DD419-719 range.
Amplifier – Being old school, I would love to have Rockford Amps once again (5 channel). Alpine’s V70 is also tempting. Budget $350-ish.
Speakers – Vastly improve front stage imaging and sound with either horns or a premium component set. Budget for speakers $450. I realize at that price I can only get the horns for now.
Phase 2 –
Addition of Subwoofer.

Thanks in advance for all you comment!

90 ST

Horns are good, with a TONNE of eq'ing on female vocals, that is all, you'd be much better off with a good comp set, focals are nice. there are a few reasons you don't see horns any more.

370ZilverZ

Congratulations on your new Z and Welcome to the forum

Here's my set-up:
Kenwood DDX719
(2) Zapco Reference 350.2 amp (2 channel, 350watts)
Focal 165KR component speakers
JL Audio HD750/1
JL 10W7

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BMW Z4

bigaudiofanat

I agree, about horns.

Also because of the limited leg room they are not going to have much room to reproduce as well as a tweeter in the a pillar or standard location.

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SP33DKILLS

I was afraid horns might be outdated and I was aware that leg room woul be a concern. Thank you all for the input and thanks 370ZilverZ for the welcome! Focal 165KR, yikes! Awesome speakers!

370ZilverZ

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BMW Z4

Neel

Hey guys, horns are very far from being "outdated" , Image Dynamics no longer makes them because the founder of the company (Eric Stevens) left the company and since he personally holds the patent to the horns, Image Dynamics can no longer make them. I know Eric is working on launching a new car audio company soon and for now he is still selling the horns and compression drivers under "Stevens Audio".

"At one time I was a huge car stereo fanatic and as such in my day the dream was to have a pair of Soundworks HCLDs."

Do you mean Speakersworks? Speakerworks made wave guides that are much different then the HLCD's that Image sold in the past. Although both are horns and are extremely efficient, the HLCD's have a controlled dispersion. Controlled dispersion meaning the mouth of the diaphragm is designed to attenuate as well as direct certain frequencies which helps with staging , width etc.. without having to use a ton of processing.

bigaudiofanat,

"Also because of the limited leg room they are not going to have much room to reproduce as well as a tweeter in the a pillar or standard location."

I'm sorry but this is not correct, Horns do a wonderful job in cars such as the 350z due to the fact the dash is very flat and fairly even on both sides, the reason for this is that the horn actually uses the dash itself as an extension of its throat when installed correctly. I have never heard horns in the new 370z, however I have heard a very nice sounding 350z with horns at finals a few years ago.

As far as mid bass drivers are concerned when running horns, there is one major thing to keep in mind... EFFICIENCY!!! Horns are usually right around 110db efficient , compared to your average mid or tweet that sits right around 80 or so... remember that in order to increase output by 3 db , you need to double the power going to the driver. The best bet is to find a very efficient mid that can take a lot of power (such as the ID XS65 or better yet the ID XS57s). Another good choice would be the 7" Scanspeak revelators, I actually have a pair myself and they are fantastic for this application. It's funny actually back when Speakerworks was selling horns , they would sell the revelators to customers and tell them that they were "Speakerworks/USD Audio" custom speakers... In fact the last time I went to the shop, they still have a pair of horns and revelators on display... Also I am pretty sure Eric Holdaway still runs them in his truck.

I don't see any processing on your list so I am not sure how much control you are going to have over the stereo overall.

So remember one of the cardinal rules in stereo is to have speakers equidistant to you (especially if you dont have the luxury of signal delay) at all times as to not have issues with primarily phase and amplitude. This goes into the actual way our brain distinguishes where sounds are coming from (Interaural time differences and interaural level differences). Turns out in most cars, your kick panels are pretty darn close to being the same distance from left to right (this is why so many competitors and enthusiasts choose to make custom kick panels to mount their speakers. So having your horns mounted under the dash and having the compression driver basically touching your firewall makes for a great start to achieving a solid soundstage. You don't need a whole lot of crazy processing to get horns sounding good, Eric himself has said multiple times that you really only need 5 bands of parametric equalization to get the job done. You should never even touch your EQ until you have figured out the correct crossover point , amplitude and phasing (and I don't mean just having the positive and negative on the right way.)

I hope this helps clear up any confusion on horns!

Hey OP, where you at in California?

bigaudiofanat

Sorry, all of the horn setups I have seen were mounted under the dash especially with the ID one's so if he could put them there that may work. However they would look really weird sitting on top f the dah and the passenger one may interfere with the airbag.

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Neel

I think you misread what I was saying, horns are supposed to be mounted under the dash like in the pictures you posted. If you read further down in my post I talk about having horns under the dash.

"So having your horns mounted under the dash and having the compression driver basically touching your firewall makes for a great start to achieving a solid soundstage."

Horns on top of your dash would be funny...

reeps

One thing I miss about my new set up is my horns, I used to run Image D horns with a total of 4 6 1/2 drivers in the front of my car, 2 in the door and 2 in the kicks. One thing I would say is the horns are super loud so make sure you have enough speakers in the car that can also help out. Hands down no better imaging in a car other then horns from what I have heard.

SP33DKILLS

Thank you all for the feedback. Yes, I did mean Speakerworks. I still have my eye on the ID Horns... like I said, it's always been a dream. Budget wise, I'm not sure it's the best solution tho. I did find the Scanspeak reveltors online and they aren't very pricey. At 7", do they fit in the 370z? Hmmm... interesting.

bigaudiofanat

If you are trying to stay on a budget I would stick with the silk tweeters, the CXS from ID are very nice and have been a favorite of mine for a while. I find myself falling for the focal KRX tweeters as they are not as harsh as their polyglass inverted tweeters. Hertz makes some nice tweeters as well. Either way your going to want to run them on the a pillars on axis for best quality and less reflected sound like the stock location reflecting off the glass.

7 inch speakers......it is possible however you would probably have to mod the plastic door panel for it to fit back into place.

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Need help with car audio or electronics? Let me know!! Need Help Let Me Know
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Owner of: Dynamic Mobile Audio Follow me below
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SP33DKILLS

Thank you for the recommendations. I'm definitely taking a closer look at the ID CXS'.