What to know about Bose

bigaudiofanat · 06-19-2012, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zakimak

Bold statement...yet not entirely correct.

Non-bose specific and or vehicle specific speakers can be installed but will unlikely yield the desired effect - namely improved sound quality to a degree that is satisfactory given the investment in the aftermarket speakers. The difference in efficiency, overall impedance and frequency response of the replacement speaker will likely give an undesirable effect but it is not absolute.

There are too many variables given the integrated design of the Bose system to really have an absolute idea how the aftermarket speakers will interact with the existing Bose amps. The Bose system integration include consideration for amplification and its' speaker specifications including placement. Something that without complete specifications, would be guess work when replace one component in the chain.

I agree in principle if one were to replace the speakers, the rest should to be discarded especially in the Z Bose system. There's a work around but that requires either disabling the dash speaker (if one were to use a 2-way at the door - for example or rewire/relocation) Component sets will require two separate cross-over to ensure proper frequency distribution and double check impedance responses given the x-overs plus knowing the output from the Bose amp...the list goes on. The bottom line is that it is much more difficult to make the Bose amp work well with aftermarket speakers than replace it all. That said, I've replaced a door speaker on a Bose system with a two way in the door in the past on a 240SX with no problems. Frequency response improvement was definitely noticeable.

What year 240? Post 1998 did not have the sound processor bose has now to omit certain frequencies from the audio it is reproducing.
I would rather give safe advice and say they are not compatible rather than saying maybe and someone blowing their bose amp up. Do some speakers provide the same ohms rating as stock, yes, however they may not be as efficient in producing sound as the paper bose speakers. And adding a set of component speakers in a bose system of the z is not that simple. The bose has a output for each speaker coming off the amp, so feeding a set of component speakers a full range signal can only be done after summing the signals of the low and high ouputs of the bose amp.

ernie · 06-19-2012, 07:13 PM

I have a loaded 2012 roadster, I love the oem bose, I just plug my ipod in with thousands of oldies and it plays my kind of music non stop. You can also download your music to the hard drive and watch dvd's. (not while driving)

dP3NGU1N · 06-19-2012, 09:12 PM

I'm not completely clear, maybe it's just me but you CAN swap out the bose system even if you have factory nav right (with the LOCs and everything)? Or is all the advice here for people who have the touring without nav?

bigaudiofanat · 06-19-2012, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dP3NGU1N

I'm not completely clear, maybe it's just me but you CAN swap out the bose system even if you have factory nav right (with the LOCs and everything)? Or is all the advice here for people who have the touring without nav?

If you have the stock nav there is no way of changing out the head unit, You must keep it and ise a LOC to add new amps and speakers.

If you have the bose system with no nav you can swap out the head unit.

dP3NGU1N · 06-19-2012, 09:31 PM

Ah so people with stock nav still have a shot at good sound. I'm guessing after market HUs provide a better audio feed though, huh?

bigaudiofanat · 06-20-2012, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dP3NGU1N

Ah so people with stock nav still have a shot at good sound. I'm guessing after market HUs provide a better audio feed though, huh?

Yes they do however a lot of higher quality sound processors and LOC's can provide just as good if not better pre-outs than your radio. Like I said on my 1st post on this thread, if you feel that you want better sound in the future save yourself the trouble and get the base system.

zakimak · 06-20-2012, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigaudiofanat

What year 240? Post 1998 did not have the sound processor bose has now to omit certain frequencies from the audio it is reproducing.
I would rather give safe advice and say they are not compatible rather than saying maybe and someone blowing their bose amp up. Do some speakers provide the same ohms rating as stock, yes, however they may not be as efficient in producing sound as the paper bose speakers. And adding a set of component speakers in a bose system of the z is not that simple. The bose has a output for each speaker coming off the amp, so feeding a set of component speakers a full range signal can only be done after summing the signals of the low and high ouputs of the bose amp.

True on the vintage of the 240 and I could only quote from my experiences as I was the one that installed it. A friend had his 2010 Maxima 'upgraded' to 2-ways pioneers which worked to his liking, so I have observed that it has been successfully integrated. So to say it is not compatible is not true. HOWEVER, I never endorsed it nor said it was simple, especially in the Z system. What I did say was that it was possible but in my opinion not worth doing without further investment.

As for Bose amp blowing up, have you actually witness a situation where "someone blowing their bose amp up" as a direct result of replacement speakers?

As for the "sound processor", what Bose did back then was limit the output at the maximum capability of the amp without distortion as it only allowed the amp to drive to predetermined output. Some system had an active loop which would feed back to the amp to prevent clipping thus distortion. So there is some processing involved. It had a variable equalization curve similar to variable 'loudness'. It simply flatten out from a U curve as the voltage increases to the maximum. AudioControl analyzer confirmed this. I haven't confirm it via test equipment but only by ear and based on that, I have to agree the Z's Bose system low and high end seem to begin to roll off at '22-23' on the radio indicator rather than flatten out. Maybe my ears are playing tricks but until it is confirmed with test equipment, that's all I can base it on. So with that, I agree with your assertion the Bose system "omit" frequencies.

As for "summing the signals of the low and high ouputs of the bose amp". You really need to clarify how this is done before I respond. I don't have in depth knowledge of the what exact signals goes to the dash speakers and to the woofer in the Z's system at this time but assuming the dash speakers are fed only high pass and the woofers are fed with low pass signal from the amp in agreement with your statement "the signals of the low and high ouputs of the bose amp", I'd like you to explain in detail your 'summing' network.

poolparty1986 · 06-26-2012, 10:49 AM

I just had my stereo system upgraded this week and here's what I went with:

Left stock Bose speakers in place
Upgraded non-nav bose head unit with Pioneer AVH4400 DVD unit
Added a JL Slash 500/1 amp along with an Alpine Type-R Shallow Mount 12" Sub in a .6 cubic foot box stuffed with Polyfill.

I am amazed at the SQ. The head unit alone really, really cleaned up the Bose speakers. I have had Bostons, MB Quart, etc in other vehicles and find the setup I went with totally clean sounding. The amp was installed behind the passanger seat and the install looks really clean. Also, just a warning for others with the roadster...the sub can barely be noticed with the top down, but top up it hits super hard. Guess it's too much sound deadening with the top in between the cabin and trunk.

cheshirecat · 06-26-2012, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poolparty1986

I just had my stereo system upgraded this week and here's what I went with:

Left stock Bose speakers in place
Upgraded non-nav bose head unit with Pioneer AVH4400 DVD unit
Added a JL Slash 500/1 amp along with an Alpine Type-R Shallow Mount 12" Sub in a .6 cubic foot box stuffed with Polyfill.

I'm debating between the 8800 and the 4400. I also have the Bose system w/o nav. I think i'll end up going with the 8800 for the higher resolution screen.

I'm putting a 7'' Android tablet in the upper cubby, so I'm thinking the better res is going to match better with that than the lower res 4400.

They're both great units though.

7419sundat · 07-19-2012, 07:30 PM

I thought my bose sounded decent but i just wanted some more bass, took it to my local audio shop. They put in a pbr300x1 amp pushing a Kicker compVR. At first i noticed it didn't give me the desired bass. Then i unplugged just 1 of the rear bose subs and now it bumps pretty good and the rest of the system is loud enough for for it... sounds good to me.

bigaudiofanat · 07-19-2012, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheshirecat

I'm debating between the 8800 and the 4400. I also have the Bose system w/o nav. I think i'll end up going with the 8800 for the higher resolution screen.

I'm putting a 7'' Android tablet in the upper cubby, so I'm thinking the better res is going to match better with that than the lower res 4400.

They're both great units though.

Just make sure your output for your pre outs of your tablet are putting out at least 4 volts going to the bose amp otherwise your going to have problems.

djrelic · 07-21-2012, 06:28 PM

BigAudioFanat,

Questions about the Bose without navigation:

I seen a few threads back and forth about a signal processor to go on after an After-market headunit installation. Iam planning on putting a Pioneer 920BT in, I have the bose harness I ordered from crutchfield for the 09' Z and up. My question to you is, will I need a signal processor after the HU, or will it be just fine the way it is?

Also, not really relating to Bose. But what is the path to route my aftermarket back-up camera through the car?

bigaudiofanat · 07-22-2012, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djrelic

BigAudioFanat,

Questions about the Bose without navigation:

I seen a few threads back and forth about a signal processor to go on after an After-market headunit installation. Iam planning on putting a Pioneer 920BT in, I have the bose harness I ordered from crutchfield for the 09' Z and up. My question to you is, will I need a signal processor after the HU, or will it be just fine the way it is?

Also, not really relating to Bose. But what is the path to route my aftermarket back-up camera through the car?

You will be ok without the processor, because the head unit is sending the signal to the stock bose amp to take care of the rest.

Best path is through the center counsel (underneath it of course) than through the trunk under all the foam blocks and to a rubber grommet to the left on the inside of the trunk behind the bumper.

Hermitns · 10-17-2012, 01:38 PM

Bigaudio, you sir are an invaluable resource. I WAS happy with my Bose until now...lol.
Here's what I pieced together based on what I've read...and I know you don't like rear speakers in this car but I HAVE to replace them out of some sense of pairity.
Factory head unit. not the best but replacible at a later date.
Helix PP50DSP
Helix PP7E Compact Sub
Polk Audio db6501 (front)
Polk Audio db401 (rear)
I believe the 6501s are listed as shallow mount.
What do you think of these choices AND since this is your area of expertise, would you know of a reputable installer in the Tampa area?
Tks in advance.

Dallaz · 10-17-2012, 02:31 PM

No High's
No Low's
Must be Bose

10-17-2012, 02:31 PM	#45 (permalink)
Dallaz A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: North Dallas Posts: 1,272 Drives: 09MontereyBlu370z6MT Rep Power: 16	No High's No Low's Must be Bose DR_, deusexm1 and WI_Hedgehog like this. __________________ AeroJacket Lip Kit \| GTR switch \| NISMO S-Knob \| Blacked-Out-EVERYTHING\| 5% Tint \| Carbon Fangs/Upper Trim \| VOSSEN CV3's \| Painted Headlights \| CF Diffuser

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06-19-2012, 07:13 PM	#32 (permalink)
ernie Base Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Lawrenceville, Ga Posts: 54 Drives: 2012 370z blk 6spd Rep Power: 13	I have a loaded 2012 roadster, I love the oem bose, I just plug my ipod in with thousands of oldies and it plays my kind of music non stop. You can also download your music to the hard drive and watch dvd's. (not while driving)

06-19-2012, 09:12 PM	#33 (permalink)
dP3NGU1N A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Irvine Posts: 1,682 Drives: 13 PW sport 6mt Rep Power: 18	I'm not completely clear, maybe it's just me but you CAN swap out the bose system even if you have factory nav right (with the LOCs and everything)? Or is all the advice here for people who have the touring without nav?

06-19-2012, 09:31 PM	#35 (permalink)
dP3NGU1N A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Irvine Posts: 1,682 Drives: 13 PW sport 6mt Rep Power: 18	Ah so people with stock nav still have a shot at good sound. I'm guessing after market HUs provide a better audio feed though, huh?

06-26-2012, 10:49 AM	#38 (permalink)
poolparty1986 Base Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Pittsburgh Age: 42 Posts: 4 Drives: '12 370z Roadster Rep Power: 13	I just had my stereo system upgraded this week and here's what I went with: Left stock Bose speakers in place Upgraded non-nav bose head unit with Pioneer AVH4400 DVD unit Added a JL Slash 500/1 amp along with an Alpine Type-R Shallow Mount 12" Sub in a .6 cubic foot box stuffed with Polyfill. I am amazed at the SQ. The head unit alone really, really cleaned up the Bose speakers. I have had Bostons, MB Quart, etc in other vehicles and find the setup I went with totally clean sounding. The amp was installed behind the passanger seat and the install looks really clean. Also, just a warning for others with the roadster...the sub can barely be noticed with the top down, but top up it hits super hard. Guess it's too much sound deadening with the top in between the cabin and trunk.

07-19-2012, 07:30 PM	#40 (permalink)
7419sundat Base Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: colorado Posts: 145 Drives: 09 370z Gtm TT 2 Rep Power: 14	I thought my bose sounded decent but i just wanted some more bass, took it to my local audio shop. They put in a pbr300x1 amp pushing a Kicker compVR. At first i noticed it didn't give me the desired bass. Then i unplugged just 1 of the rear bose subs and now it bumps pretty good and the rest of the system is loud enough for for it... sounds good to me.

07-21-2012, 06:28 PM	#42 (permalink)
djrelic Base Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Philly Posts: 116 Drives: 09' Touring 6spd Rep Power: 13	BigAudioFanat, Questions about the Bose without navigation: I seen a few threads back and forth about a signal processor to go on after an After-market headunit installation. Iam planning on putting a Pioneer 920BT in, I have the bose harness I ordered from crutchfield for the 09' Z and up. My question to you is, will I need a signal processor after the HU, or will it be just fine the way it is? Also, not really relating to Bose. But what is the path to route my aftermarket back-up camera through the car?

10-17-2012, 01:38 PM	#44 (permalink)
Hermitns Base Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Fla Posts: 143 Drives: 11 370 auto Rep Power: 14	Bigaudio, you sir are an invaluable resource. I WAS happy with my Bose until now...lol. Here's what I pieced together based on what I've read...and I know you don't like rear speakers in this car but I HAVE to replace them out of some sense of pairity. Factory head unit. not the best but replacible at a later date. Helix PP50DSP Helix PP7E Compact Sub Polk Audio db6501 (front) Polk Audio db401 (rear) I believe the 6501s are listed as shallow mount. What do you think of these choices AND since this is your area of expertise, would you know of a reputable installer in the Tampa area? Tks in advance.