What to know about Bose

eastwest2300 · 12-06-2011, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple's

Nice write-up Matt

I'll sticky it so its easy for other members with questions to find.

Thanks Mod.

Fly1 Motorsports · 12-08-2011, 01:08 PM

Hey Guys,

I just wanted to add my

to Matt's write up so it's part of this thread for people that may be thinking about upgrading the factory bose setup with navigation. I had a slightly bumpy road, but ultimately was able to upgrade successfully - and want to share how I got there.

I was part of Matt's "California Builds" recently - and wanted better quality audio all around, while retaining my factory nav/head unit. I quickly found out that I didn't have any options w/ swapping the head unit for reasons noted above.

So I opted for an MTX LOC which was reasonably priced (MTX RE-Q5) as the interface between my Bose head unit and new amplifier (Alpine PDX-5). We bypassed the factory amp and went straight to the RE-Q5 and then to the Alpine. We DID encounter problems w/ the MTX unit (faulty harness) - so I had to get another one mid-install. Definitely not fun scrambling to find one locally, but I was able to. The alpine amp was powering Image Dynamics components (door speakers/tweeters), and an Image Dynamics Sub.

This is where the problems began - alternator/engine whine. If you've never had to deal w/ this - it's a gnarly constant whine that persists whether the stereo is on or off...and amplifies as you accelerate. It can quickly drive you up the wall!

Matt double checked all grounds, but that was not the problem. Upon research, we found that many MTX RE-Q5 users experienced the same thing. Whether a higher end unit (JBL MS-8; Rockford Fosgate Three-60) would have avoided the whine - I can't say for sure. I would, however, recommend one of those higher end units as they would be MUCH easier to tune the system...but more on that later.

So finally, I had to use trial and error to find/resolve the source of the engine whine. I initially tried an inline power noise filter at the battery terminal (the MTX was fed directly from the battery). That didn't work. Next, I tried an inline power noise filter near the MTX; along with a ground loop isolator. I also separated any power and audio cabling w/ simple ducting. VOILA - engine whine gone!

I was happy at that point, but still a little unsettled w/ the overall tuning of the system (didn't feel the bump in the sub and front speakers were too loud relatively). I increased gains at the amp, played with the crossover frequencies and gains on the RE-Q5, and fine tuned w/ the factory audio controls - and FINALLY, I felt very happy w/ the result. As mentioned earlier, a higher-end LOC would have probably made the final audio adjustments easier (MTX has simple/cheap knobs you adjust w/ a screwdriver). That said, I have a hunch I would have still had to deal w/ eliminating engine noise which stems from having to amplify the factory Bose levels, which as Matt mentioned, are output at odd levels.

Matt and I ventured into this knowing we were entering uncharted waters...but I'm thrilled to finally have an upgraded system w/ the factory nav/Bose system. Significantly better clarity, imaging and bump

. Hope this helps anyone looking to upgrade...

-Lohit

jpritche · 12-08-2011, 01:12 PM

I have also upgraded my factory nav with bose. I did not have near the problems you did thank goodness. I just used a simple LOC and it works great. I used the wires that were going into the factory sub and hooked the LOC there and then ran my RCA from there to my amp. It has worked great for around a year now.

Currently I have a JL 12w3 in a Zenclosure box

By the way congrats on the new audio build.

bigaudiofanat · 12-08-2011, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpritche

I have also upgraded my factory nav with bose. I did not have near the problems you did thank goodness. I just used a simple LOC and it works great. I used the wires that were going into the factory sub and hooked the LOC there and then ran my RCA from there to my amp. It has worked great for around a year now.

Currently I have a JL 12w3 in a Zenclosure box

By the way congrats on the new audio build.

Ya using a LOC to go to a new sub would not be effected by the wining noise as its higher pitched and usually comes from tweeters.

bigaudiofanat · 12-08-2011, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theflyest1

Hey Guys,

I just wanted to add my

to Matt's write up so it's part of this thread for people that may be thinking about upgrading the factory bose setup with navigation. I had a slightly bumpy road, but ultimately was able to upgrade successfully - and want to share how I got there.

I was part of Matt's "California Builds" recently - and wanted better quality audio all around, while retaining my factory nav/head unit. I quickly found out that I didn't have any options w/ swapping the head unit for reasons noted above.

So I opted for an MTX LOC which was reasonably priced (MTX RE-Q5) as the interface between my Bose head unit and new amplifier (Alpine PDX-5). We bypassed the factory amp and went straight to the RE-Q5 and then to the Alpine. We DID encounter problems w/ the MTX unit (faulty harness) - so I had to get another one mid-install. Definitely not fun scrambling to find one locally, but I was able to. The alpine amp was powering Image Dynamics components (door speakers/tweeters), and an Image Dynamics Sub.

This is where the problems began - alternator/engine whine. If you've never had to deal w/ this - it's a gnarly constant whine that persists whether the stereo is on or off...and amplifies as you accelerate. It can quickly drive you up the wall!

Matt double checked all grounds, but that was not the problem. Upon research, we found that many MTX RE-Q5 users experienced the same thing. Whether a higher end unit (JBL MS-8; Rockford Fosgate Three-60) would have avoided the whine - I can't say for sure. I would, however, recommend one of those higher end units as they would be MUCH easier to tune the system...but more on that later.

So finally, I had to use trial and error to find/resolve the source of the engine whine. I initially tried an inline power noise filter at the battery terminal (the MTX was fed directly from the battery). That didn't work. Next, I tried an inline power noise filter near the MTX; along with a ground loop isolator. I also separated any power and audio cabling w/ simple ducting. VOILA - engine whine gone!

I was happy at that point, but still a little unsettled w/ the overall tuning of the system (didn't feel the bump in the sub and front speakers were too loud relatively). I increased gains at the amp, played with the crossover frequencies and gains on the RE-Q5, and fine tuned w/ the factory audio controls - and FINALLY, I felt very happy w/ the result. As mentioned earlier, a higher-end LOC would have probably made the final audio adjustments easier (MTX has simple/cheap knobs you adjust w/ a screwdriver). That said, I have a hunch I would have still had to deal w/ eliminating engine noise which stems from having to amplify the factory Bose levels, which as Matt mentioned, are output at odd levels.

Matt and I ventured into this knowing we were entering uncharted waters...but I'm thrilled to finally have an upgraded system w/ the factory nav/Bose system. Significantly better clarity, imaging and bump

. Hope this helps anyone looking to upgrade...

-Lohit

Lohit just a few things to add, not everyone may encounter engine noise it may or many not be there when you upgrade using the bose head unit as your base. Also higher end units have a lot more cleaning power so they would probably not be effected as badly as the MTX did. And man that was not fun trying to figure out why neither req would boot, all because of a bad harness.

pwrhsms · 01-21-2012, 05:49 AM

So if i get the JBL MS-8 can i still use all my factory controls?

bigaudiofanat · 01-21-2012, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwrhsms

So if i get the JBL MS-8 can i still use all my factory controls?

Yes, as long as your keeping your stock head unit and your bos amp installed. Run the speaker outputs into the inputs of the MS8 and than out to your new amps than your new speakers.

pwrhsms · 01-22-2012, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigaudiofanat

Yes, as long as your keeping your stock head unit and your bos amp installed. Run the speaker outputs into the inputs of the MS8 and than out to your new amps than your new speakers.

thanks for the quick response. MS8 on the way!!

MattP725 · 01-21-2012, 02:42 PM

Matt the Bose harness from crutchfield... do we use every wire? Some say for Subaru only and there are no Nissan specifics on the diagram. Trying to get everything wired up correctly the first time.

bigaudiofanat · 01-21-2012, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattP725

Matt the Bose harness from crutchfield... do we use every wire? Some say for Subaru only and there are no Nissan specifics on the diagram. Trying to get everything wired up correctly the first time.

The Subaru "black wire" is for grounding which the nissan does not have in its harness, you have to ground your new head unit to a piece of metal of your car.

If there is a dimmer one that says it as well do not use that as well.

MattP725 · 01-21-2012, 07:09 PM

Awesome I'll clip it. Thanks brotha!

bigaudiofanat · 06-18-2012, 02:57 PM

I want to reiterate that you can not wire up new speakers directly to the bose system. I have been getting a lot of emails asking this. You need the fallowing:

LOC
New amp
New speakers
New speaker wire
Base system speaker brackets

sparky · 06-18-2012, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigaudiofanat

I want to reiterate that you can not wire up new speakers directly to the bose system. I have been getting a lot of emails asking this. You need the fallowing:

LOC
New amp
New speakers
New speaker wire
Base system speaker brackets

Out of curiosity why doesn't another manufacturer make compatible speakers?
Bose makes them so why doesn't someone else just make a superior product?
Seems crazy to have to put in all of the above. Is it not feasible from a design perspective
or is it some kind of industry protection thing? Just curious as I've read all your threads on this and don't recall the actual reason?

Thanks Bigaudiofanat

bigaudiofanat · 06-19-2012, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparky

Out of curiosity why doesn't another manufacturer make compatible speakers?
Bose makes them so why doesn't someone else just make a superior product?
Seems crazy to have to put in all of the above. Is it not feasible from a design perspective
or is it some kind of industry protection thing? Just curious as I've read all your threads on this and don't recall the actual reason?

Thanks Bigaudiofanat

It is not only because of the different ohms rating, that can be matched. The second reason is the bose amp filters the sound before it ever gets to the speakers. So replacing the speakers is not going to help if the bose amp is set at a crazy crossover range.

You need a flat unmodified signal to start with than add amps than your new speakers.

To put it in other words, the bose by default omits a lot of frequency's a new pair of speakers can reproduce just fine. So you would not be getting the best sound from them if you were to just wire them up to the bose system, not to mention a change of under driving the speakers with the bose amp.

zakimak · 06-19-2012, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigaudiofanat

I want to reiterate that you can not wire up new speakers directly to the bose system. I have been getting a lot of emails asking this. You need the fallowing:

LOC
New amp
New speakers
New speaker wire
Base system speaker brackets

Bold statement...yet not entirely correct.

Non-bose specific and or vehicle specific speakers can be installed but will unlikely yield the desired effect - namely improved sound quality to a degree that is satisfactory given the investment in the aftermarket speakers. The difference in efficiency, overall impedance and frequency response of the replacement speaker will likely give an undesirable effect but it is not absolute.

There are too many variables given the integrated design of the Bose system to really have an absolute idea how the aftermarket speakers will interact with the existing Bose amps. The Bose system integration include consideration for amplification and its' speaker specifications including placement. Something that without complete specifications, would be guess work when replace one component in the chain.

I agree in principle if one were to replace the speakers, the rest should to be discarded especially in the Z Bose system. There's a work around but that requires either disabling the dash speaker (if one were to use a 2-way at the door - for example or rewire/relocation) Component sets will require two separate cross-over to ensure proper frequency distribution and double check impedance responses given the x-overs plus knowing the output from the Bose amp...the list goes on. The bottom line is that it is much more difficult to make the Bose amp work well with aftermarket speakers than replace it all. That said, I've replaced a door speaker on a Bose system with a two way in the door in the past on a 240SX with no problems. Frequency response improvement was definitely noticeable.

12-08-2011, 01:08 PM	#2 (permalink)
Fly1 Motorsports Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,094 Drives: PW 370Z 7AT/Tr/Sp/Nv Rep Power: 19	My Factory Nav/Bose System Install Hey Guys, I just wanted to add my to Matt's write up so it's part of this thread for people that may be thinking about upgrading the factory bose setup with navigation. I had a slightly bumpy road, but ultimately was able to upgrade successfully - and want to share how I got there. I was part of Matt's "California Builds" recently - and wanted better quality audio all around, while retaining my factory nav/head unit. I quickly found out that I didn't have any options w/ swapping the head unit for reasons noted above. So I opted for an MTX LOC which was reasonably priced (MTX RE-Q5) as the interface between my Bose head unit and new amplifier (Alpine PDX-5). We bypassed the factory amp and went straight to the RE-Q5 and then to the Alpine. We DID encounter problems w/ the MTX unit (faulty harness) - so I had to get another one mid-install. Definitely not fun scrambling to find one locally, but I was able to. The alpine amp was powering Image Dynamics components (door speakers/tweeters), and an Image Dynamics Sub. This is where the problems began - alternator/engine whine. If you've never had to deal w/ this - it's a gnarly constant whine that persists whether the stereo is on or off...and amplifies as you accelerate. It can quickly drive you up the wall! Matt double checked all grounds, but that was not the problem. Upon research, we found that many MTX RE-Q5 users experienced the same thing. Whether a higher end unit (JBL MS-8; Rockford Fosgate Three-60) would have avoided the whine - I can't say for sure. I would, however, recommend one of those higher end units as they would be MUCH easier to tune the system...but more on that later. So finally, I had to use trial and error to find/resolve the source of the engine whine. I initially tried an inline power noise filter at the battery terminal (the MTX was fed directly from the battery). That didn't work. Next, I tried an inline power noise filter near the MTX; along with a ground loop isolator. I also separated any power and audio cabling w/ simple ducting. VOILA - engine whine gone! I was happy at that point, but still a little unsettled w/ the overall tuning of the system (didn't feel the bump in the sub and front speakers were too loud relatively). I increased gains at the amp, played with the crossover frequencies and gains on the RE-Q5, and fine tuned w/ the factory audio controls - and FINALLY, I felt very happy w/ the result. As mentioned earlier, a higher-end LOC would have probably made the final audio adjustments easier (MTX has simple/cheap knobs you adjust w/ a screwdriver). That said, I have a hunch I would have still had to deal w/ eliminating engine noise which stems from having to amplify the factory Bose levels, which as Matt mentioned, are output at odd levels. Matt and I ventured into this knowing we were entering uncharted waters...but I'm thrilled to finally have an upgraded system w/ the factory nav/Bose system. Significantly better clarity, imaging and bump . Hope this helps anyone looking to upgrade... -Lohit andy_meng1024, azza12311 and WI_Hedgehog like this.

06-18-2012, 02:57 PM	#12 (permalink)
bigaudiofanat Car Audio Installer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Magnolia DE Posts: 8,342 Drives: 2012 Infiniti G37x Rep Power: 853	I want to reiterate that you can not wire up new speakers directly to the bose system. I have been getting a lot of emails asking this. You need the fallowing: LOC New amp New speakers New speaker wire Base system speaker brackets WI_Hedgehog likes this. __________________ Need help with car audio or electronics? Let me know!! Need Help Let Me Know Direct email address reimermatt@gmail.com Owner of: Dynamic Mobile Audio Follow me below https://www.facebook.com/Dynamicmobileaudio/

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12-08-2011, 01:12 PM	#3 (permalink)
jpritche A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Cartersville, Ga Age: 33 Posts: 2,570 Drives: '15 RR, '14 IS250 Rep Power: 31	I have also upgraded my factory nav with bose. I did not have near the problems you did thank goodness. I just used a simple LOC and it works great. I used the wires that were going into the factory sub and hooked the LOC there and then ran my RCA from there to my amp. It has worked great for around a year now. Currently I have a JL 12w3 in a Zenclosure box By the way congrats on the new audio build.

01-21-2012, 05:49 AM	#6 (permalink)
pwrhsms Base Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: germany Posts: 56 Drives: 09 370Z loaded Rep Power: 14	So if i get the JBL MS-8 can i still use all my factory controls?

01-21-2012, 02:42 PM	#9 (permalink)
MattP725 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2011 Location: Toms River, NJ Posts: 1,904 Drives: 2010 40th Rep Power: 17	Matt the Bose harness from crutchfield... do we use every wire? Some say for Subaru only and there are no Nissan specifics on the diagram. Trying to get everything wired up correctly the first time.

01-21-2012, 07:09 PM	#11 (permalink)
MattP725 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2011 Location: Toms River, NJ Posts: 1,904 Drives: 2010 40th Rep Power: 17	Awesome I'll clip it. Thanks brotha!