1990's Amps vs Todays

Austin · 10-12-2010, 10:22 AM

There have been a few posts about people looking for / buying nice amps from the 1990's over current amp models.

How do amps like PPI Art series, Orion HCCA, and gernade style Punch amps compare with todays amps?

bigaudiofanat · 10-12-2010, 11:29 AM

Depends on what amps from today you are talking about. Like you could compare them to the alpines which would be close or compare them to audison and image dynamics which they would be better or things like pioneer or kenwood amps that would be junk compared to the old orions. Personally I like the newer amps like audison and ID but the old orions are amazing as well.

Unclemeaty · 10-13-2010, 06:05 PM

I run PPI Powerclass series amps in my 370z. Youve got to watch out for amps of today and of yesteryear - Just like today there were some bad/weak amps all over the shelves in the 1990s. There are a decent number of older amps that rocked and still rock...

Basically, all the 90s brought were Class-AB and none of this hyped Class-D 10,000w BS. yes they draw more power and likely need 4Ga at eh minimum. The best amps were usually reated conservatively, IE no more than about 100w per channel at a very very clean and conservative level. Many of which could perform much higher than what they were rated.

I once had a PPI Powerclass PC1400 (Or PC1800 for Chrome series) which was 400x1 @ 4Ohms RMS, stable down to 2Ohms, but I pused it down to 1.3Ohms. It routinely poped 100Amp fuses and likely put out closer to 1200W rms clean AB power.

My "hit" list of amps from the 90s:
Should be noted that the majority of these amps were Made in the USA

PPI Art (1995 era)
PPI Powerclass (Dark Grey or Silver/Chrome smooth case) (1996 to 2002)
Hifonics series before XI that were made by ZedAudio (Thor, Boltar, Zeus, Saturn, Vulcan) (1990 thru 1994)
Lanzar Amps (Made by ZedAudio??)
Zed Audio amps - Really anything made by them is top notch.
Rockford back from the learly to late 90s - They looked like Grenades. I hear the cappless ones from the early 90s were the better. (Any of these Made in the USA are good)
SoundStream amps (1993-1997)
Planet Audio amps no later than about 1998 (Made by Zed Audio)
Orion HCCA class amps (1999-2002ish)

Basically, most of these amps I've listed would have retailed for about $4-500 back in the day. Of course the 90s did bring a lot of general use $200 amps which are now not worth much at all.

By todays standards, a $500 amp of today could likely outperform a $500 amp from the 90s. Where I love the 1990s amps is in their street cost today. You can buy one for dimes on the dollar and really get a huge punch for your dollar. I've spent only $150 on 750w worth of PPI amps and have more clean power watts than I know what to do with. If I had bought these amps back in the 90s brand new I would have spent from about $900. If I bought a new amp today for $150 then I would not have bragging rights, quality, workmanship, longevity, or nostalgia.

Unclemeaty · 10-14-2010, 11:21 PM

Here is one of the nicest amps money can buy. its a PPI Powerclass PC4100 thats 100w x 4 rms. This amp can run an entire car at 120+ decibles no problem. This sucker will pull about 80+ amps and needs 4 ga and realistic output is around 600-800w RMS esprecially when the impedance drops below 4ohms. This amp is 2 feet long. You will not be dis-satisfied. I had the PC1400 version of this (1x400rms) and it was rediculously loud and clear.

Precision Power PC4100 Amplifier PPi Car amp PC-4100 - eBay (item 230538119885 end time Oct-16-10 21:10:53 PDT)

Here's the manual.

http://www.precisionpower.com/Manual...Amplifiers.pdf

Its not mine, but happy bidding on one of the nicest amps ever made. If I didnt have my setup I'd be bidding on this!

antennahead · 10-14-2010, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unclemeaty

I run PPI Powerclass series amps in my 370z. Youve got to watch out for amps of today and of yesteryear - Just like today there were some bad/weak amps all over the shelves in the 1990s. There are a decent number of older amps that rocked and still rock...

Basically, all the 90s brought were Class-AB and none of this hyped Class-D 10,000w BS. yes they draw more power and likely need 4Ga at eh minimum. The best amps were usually reated conservatively, IE no more than about 100w per channel at a very very clean and conservative level. Many of which could perform much higher than what they were rated.

I once had a PPI Powerclass PC1400 (Or PC1800 for Chrome series) which was 400x1 @ 4Ohms RMS, stable down to 2Ohms, but I pused it down to 1.3Ohms. It routinely poped 100Amp fuses and likely put out closer to 1200W rms clean AB power.

My "hit" list of amps from the 90s:
Should be noted that the majority of these amps were Made in the USA

PPI Art (1995 era)
PPI Powerclass (Dark Grey or Silver/Chrome smooth case) (1996 to 2002)
Hifonics series before XI that were made by ZedAudio (Thor, Boltar, Zeus, Saturn, Vulcan) (1990 thru 1994)
Lanzar Amps (Made by ZedAudio??)
Zed Audio amps - Really anything made by them is top notch.
Rockford back from the learly to late 90s - They looked like Grenades. I hear the cappless ones from the early 90s were the better. (Any of these Made in the USA are good)
SoundStream amps (1993-1997)
Planet Audio amps no later than about 1998 (Made by Zed Audio)
Orion HCCA class amps (1999-2002ish)

Basically, most of these amps I've listed would have retailed for about $4-500 back in the day. Of course the 90s did bring a lot of general use $200 amps which are now not worth much at all.

By todays standards, a $500 amp of today could likely outperform a $500 amp from the 90s. Where I love the 1990s amps is in their street cost today. You can buy one for dimes on the dollar and really get a huge punch for your dollar. I've spent only $150 on 750w worth of PPI amps and have more clean power watts than I know what to do with. If I had bought these amps back in the 90s brand new I would have spent from about $900. If I bought a new amp today for $150 then I would not have bragging rights, quality, workmanship, longevity, or nostalgia.

I still have a Soundstream D200II in storage, works perfectly, left over from my competition days (SQ all the way

) Maybe I should sell it

Unclemeaty · 11-05-2010, 09:30 AM

If anybody is interested, I'm starting to grow a collection of old-school amplifiers ranging from MTX, Rockford DSM, Soundstream MC, Regular Rockford, PPI... I'm actually growning into a hobby of buying them used and needing service and then fixing them:

PPC PC275 pictures by unclemeat2010 - Photobucket
Pictures by unclemeat2010 - Photobucket

I have one of them for sale on eBay right now. Its a Rockford Fosgate "The Punch" 40DSM from 1993:
Old School Rockford Fosgate The Punch 40 dsm: eBay Motors (item 150514899470 end time Nov-09-10 19:39:40 PST)

I dont plan on 'making' money except on maybe some of the rarest of amps. I repare them as a hobby and in my free time. If you have one that needs servicing I would entertain buying it from you ($10 per 100W RMS) or fixing it for you.

90 ST · 11-05-2010, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unclemeaty

I run PPI Powerclass series amps in my 370z. Youve got to watch out for amps of today and of yesteryear - Just like today there were some bad/weak amps all over the shelves in the 1990s. There are a decent number of older amps that rocked and still rock...

Basically, all the 90s brought were Class-AB and none of this hyped Class-D 10,000w BS. yes they draw more power and likely need 4Ga at eh minimum. The best amps were usually reated conservatively, IE no more than about 100w per channel at a very very clean and conservative level. Many of which could perform much higher than what they were rated.

I once had a PPI Powerclass PC1400 (Or PC1800 for Chrome series) which was 400x1 @ 4Ohms RMS, stable down to 2Ohms, but I pused it down to 1.3Ohms. It routinely poped 100Amp fuses and likely put out closer to 1200W rms clean AB power.

My "hit" list of amps from the 90s:
Should be noted that the majority of these amps were Made in the USA

PPI Art (1995 era)
PPI Powerclass (Dark Grey or Silver/Chrome smooth case) (1996 to 2002)
Hifonics series before XI that were made by ZedAudio (Thor, Boltar, Zeus, Saturn, Vulcan) (1990 thru 1994)
Lanzar Amps (Made by ZedAudio??)
Zed Audio amps - Really anything made by them is top notch.
Rockford back from the learly to late 90s - They looked like Grenades. I hear the cappless ones from the early 90s were the better. (Any of these Made in the USA are good)
SoundStream amps (1993-1997)
Planet Audio amps no later than about 1998 (Made by Zed Audio)
Orion HCCA class amps (1999-2002ish)

Basically, most of these amps I've listed would have retailed for about $4-500 back in the day. Of course the 90s did bring a lot of general use $200 amps which are now not worth much at all.

By todays standards, a $500 amp of today could likely outperform a $500 amp from the 90s. Where I love the 1990s amps is in their street cost today. You can buy one for dimes on the dollar and really get a huge punch for your dollar. I've spent only $150 on 750w worth of PPI amps and have more clean power watts than I know what to do with. If I had bought these amps back in the 90s brand new I would have spent from about $900. If I bought a new amp today for $150 then I would not have bragging rights, quality, workmanship, longevity, or nostalgia.

You forgot PG, any of the M, MS, and MPS series, not to mentioned some of the LTD editions they did back then.

The "caps" you speak of for the RF amps, were optional, so that doesn't make a difference, i remember buying them for the amps, just like the link to make it all look like one big amp. It wasn't until the "rocket pack" style that they started to go to $hit.

Unclemeaty · 11-05-2010, 12:22 PM

Of course; PG - Phoenix Gold. I just have yet to see/service one.

90 ST · 11-05-2010, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unclemeaty

Of course; PG - Phoenix Gold. I just have yet to see/service one.

Yeah i still have 3 M25's that work great! my Buddy has my old Son Of Frank amp n stein, and it's still going strong too, as are the PPI A1200 and A600 he has of mine.

Unclemeaty · 11-05-2010, 01:56 PM

I love the sound quality of my Soundstream MC140x. Supposedly it has some of the best Darlington bi-polar transistors and is the closest thing to a pure Class-A you can get out of CLass AB.

Its a little underpowered at 35x5, but 4 channels bridged is still good for door speakers. Bridged it will do 90W x2 @ 4 ohms RMS. I do have to say its the cleanest sounding SQ amp I've ever heard that I've owned. Unfortunately it is such a finicky little amp that I cant depend much on it yet. Two of the 4 channels have some problems to say the least.

It looks hand-made, and once I get it fixed its going to replace my PPI PC275 currently running my Z's door speakers.

Unclemeaty · 11-05-2010, 02:02 PM

Then I've got a Hifonics X Thor made by Zed Audio. Its 125x2 and one of the last of the great Hifonics amps of the 90s. Its going to replace my PPI PC2150 when I get it fixed.

Not to say that PPI is a bad brand; but, after looking inside all these amps I'm starting to tell build vs quality vs cost of components. My PC2150 amp from the factory actually used low quality TIP35 and TIP36 output transistors.

optiontrader · 11-05-2010, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antennahead

I still have a Soundstream D200II in storage, works perfectly, left over from my competition days (SQ all the way

) Maybe I should sell it

+1; my old '91 Sentra SE-R had Soundstream amps all around:

MC140: 2 channels driving rears (!!!), the other two biamping the front tweets (a/d/s 325is - remember those?).
D100II: front a/d/s woofers.
D200II: bridged driving a single Polk 10" db sub in a 1.25 cu ft box behind the rear seat.

I miss those amps...

90 ST · 11-06-2010, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unclemeaty

Then I've got a Hifonics X Thor made by Zed Audio. Its 125x2 and one of the last of the great Hifonics amps of the 90s. Its going to replace my PPI PC2150 when I get it fixed.

Not to say that PPI is a bad brand; but, after looking inside all these amps I'm starting to tell build vs quality vs cost of components. My PC2150 amp from the factory actually used low quality TIP35 and TIP36 output transistors.

Yeah, the PC and on was the start of the end, Art and ProMos were the last of their kind from PPI

2fast4thelaw · 11-08-2010, 11:34 AM

I feel the old-school amps are superior in dynamics and clarity than most of the new stuff but the old school amps are really hard on your electrical system. They were not designed with efficency in mind so the power supplies being high current have efficiencies of 50% or less where now power supplies are 80% or better but at a sacrafice of dynamics.

Unless a class D amp has a massive power supply, it isnt going compete with the old-school amps. Technology advances have reduced the size of amps which opens a whole new world of installation possibilities so there are other advantages. Also crossover and equalization has come along way improving and shaping sound easier and more convieniently.

Pretty much once amps started getting made over seas, quality went down hill in favor of mass production. Many of the great companies have been bought out and prostituted to the main stream market mainly to stay alive in this economy. I also feel surface mount technology has reduced relaibility in circuit boards so audio equipment just isnt as bullet proof as it use to be.

Good amps still can be had, but you have to pay big money to get them.

antennahead · 11-08-2010, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by optiontrader

+1; my old '91 Sentra SE-R had Soundstream amps all around:

MC140: 2 channels driving rears (!!!), the other two biamping the front tweets (a/d/s 325is - remember those?).
D100II: front a/d/s woofers.
D200II: bridged driving a single Polk 10" db sub in a 1.25 cu ft box behind the rear seat.

I miss those amps...

That is not too far off from the system I had in the '90 300ZX. ads 325is speakers, soundstream amps, a custom made fiberglass sub box with two 8" Boston Acoustic subs driven by the D200, system rocked!

10-12-2010, 10:22 AM	#1 (permalink)
Austin Base Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Kansas City Posts: 53 Drives: 2007 350z Rep Power: 15	1990's Amps vs Todays There have been a few posts about people looking for / buying nice amps from the 1990's over current amp models. How do amps like PPI Art series, Orion HCCA, and gernade style Punch amps compare with todays amps?

10-12-2010, 11:29 AM	#2 (permalink)
bigaudiofanat Car Audio Installer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Magnolia DE Posts: 8,342 Drives: 2012 Infiniti G37x Rep Power: 853	Depends on what amps from today you are talking about. Like you could compare them to the alpines which would be close or compare them to audison and image dynamics which they would be better or things like pioneer or kenwood amps that would be junk compared to the old orions. Personally I like the newer amps like audison and ID but the old orions are amazing as well. __________________ Need help with car audio or electronics? Let me know!! Need Help Let Me Know Direct email address reimermatt@gmail.com Owner of: Dynamic Mobile Audio Follow me below https://www.facebook.com/Dynamicmobileaudio/

10-13-2010, 06:05 PM	#3 (permalink)
Unclemeaty Base Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Atlanta Posts: 203 Drives: 150cc Scooter Rep Power: 15	I run PPI Powerclass series amps in my 370z. Youve got to watch out for amps of today and of yesteryear - Just like today there were some bad/weak amps all over the shelves in the 1990s. There are a decent number of older amps that rocked and still rock... Basically, all the 90s brought were Class-AB and none of this hyped Class-D 10,000w BS. yes they draw more power and likely need 4Ga at eh minimum. The best amps were usually reated conservatively, IE no more than about 100w per channel at a very very clean and conservative level. Many of which could perform much higher than what they were rated. I once had a PPI Powerclass PC1400 (Or PC1800 for Chrome series) which was 400x1 @ 4Ohms RMS, stable down to 2Ohms, but I pused it down to 1.3Ohms. It routinely poped 100Amp fuses and likely put out closer to 1200W rms clean AB power. My "hit" list of amps from the 90s: Should be noted that the majority of these amps were Made in the USA PPI Art (1995 era) PPI Powerclass (Dark Grey or Silver/Chrome smooth case) (1996 to 2002) Hifonics series before XI that were made by ZedAudio (Thor, Boltar, Zeus, Saturn, Vulcan) (1990 thru 1994) Lanzar Amps (Made by ZedAudio??) Zed Audio amps - Really anything made by them is top notch. Rockford back from the learly to late 90s - They looked like Grenades. I hear the cappless ones from the early 90s were the better. (Any of these Made in the USA are good) SoundStream amps (1993-1997) Planet Audio amps no later than about 1998 (Made by Zed Audio) Orion HCCA class amps (1999-2002ish) Basically, most of these amps I've listed would have retailed for about $4-500 back in the day. Of course the 90s did bring a lot of general use $200 amps which are now not worth much at all. By todays standards, a $500 amp of today could likely outperform a $500 amp from the 90s. Where I love the 1990s amps is in their street cost today. You can buy one for dimes on the dollar and really get a huge punch for your dollar. I've spent only $150 on 750w worth of PPI amps and have more clean power watts than I know what to do with. If I had bought these amps back in the 90s brand new I would have spent from about $900. If I bought a new amp today for $150 then I would not have bragging rights, quality, workmanship, longevity, or nostalgia. Last edited by Unclemeaty; 10-13-2010 at 06:17 PM.

10-14-2010, 11:21 PM	#4 (permalink)
Unclemeaty Base Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Atlanta Posts: 203 Drives: 150cc Scooter Rep Power: 15	Here is one of the nicest amps money can buy. its a PPI Powerclass PC4100 thats 100w x 4 rms. This amp can run an entire car at 120+ decibles no problem. This sucker will pull about 80+ amps and needs 4 ga and realistic output is around 600-800w RMS esprecially when the impedance drops below 4ohms. This amp is 2 feet long. You will not be dis-satisfied. I had the PC1400 version of this (1x400rms) and it was rediculously loud and clear. Precision Power PC4100 Amplifier PPi Car amp PC-4100 - eBay (item 230538119885 end time Oct-16-10 21:10:53 PDT) Here's the manual. http://www.precisionpower.com/Manual...Amplifiers.pdf Its not mine, but happy bidding on one of the nicest amps ever made. If I didnt have my setup I'd be bidding on this! Last edited by Unclemeaty; 10-14-2010 at 11:28 PM.

11-05-2010, 01:56 PM	#10 (permalink)
Unclemeaty Base Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Atlanta Posts: 203 Drives: 150cc Scooter Rep Power: 15	I love the sound quality of my Soundstream MC140x. Supposedly it has some of the best Darlington bi-polar transistors and is the closest thing to a pure Class-A you can get out of CLass AB. Its a little underpowered at 35x5, but 4 channels bridged is still good for door speakers. Bridged it will do 90W x2 @ 4 ohms RMS. I do have to say its the cleanest sounding SQ amp I've ever heard that I've owned. Unfortunately it is such a finicky little amp that I cant depend much on it yet. Two of the 4 channels have some problems to say the least. It looks hand-made, and once I get it fixed its going to replace my PPI PC275 currently running my Z's door speakers. Last edited by Unclemeaty; 11-05-2010 at 01:58 PM.

11-05-2010, 09:30 AM	#6 (permalink)
Unclemeaty Base Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Atlanta Posts: 203 Drives: 150cc Scooter Rep Power: 15	If anybody is interested, I'm starting to grow a collection of old-school amplifiers ranging from MTX, Rockford DSM, Soundstream MC, Regular Rockford, PPI... I'm actually growning into a hobby of buying them used and needing service and then fixing them: PPC PC275 pictures by unclemeat2010 - Photobucket Pictures by unclemeat2010 - Photobucket I have one of them for sale on eBay right now. Its a Rockford Fosgate "The Punch" 40DSM from 1993: Old School Rockford Fosgate The Punch 40 dsm: eBay Motors (item 150514899470 end time Nov-09-10 19:39:40 PST) I dont plan on 'making' money except on maybe some of the rarest of amps. I repare them as a hobby and in my free time. If you have one that needs servicing I would entertain buying it from you ($10 per 100W RMS) or fixing it for you.

11-05-2010, 12:22 PM	#8 (permalink)
Unclemeaty Base Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Atlanta Posts: 203 Drives: 150cc Scooter Rep Power: 15	Of course; PG - Phoenix Gold. I just have yet to see/service one.

11-05-2010, 02:02 PM	#11 (permalink)
Unclemeaty Base Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Atlanta Posts: 203 Drives: 150cc Scooter Rep Power: 15	Then I've got a Hifonics X Thor made by Zed Audio. Its 125x2 and one of the last of the great Hifonics amps of the 90s. Its going to replace my PPI PC2150 when I get it fixed. Not to say that PPI is a bad brand; but, after looking inside all these amps I'm starting to tell build vs quality vs cost of components. My PC2150 amp from the factory actually used low quality TIP35 and TIP36 output transistors.

11-08-2010, 11:34 AM	#14 (permalink)
2fast4thelaw Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Denver Co Age: 50 Posts: 403 Drives: 09 370Z Sport/MT6 Rep Power: 16	I feel the old-school amps are superior in dynamics and clarity than most of the new stuff but the old school amps are really hard on your electrical system. They were not designed with efficency in mind so the power supplies being high current have efficiencies of 50% or less where now power supplies are 80% or better but at a sacrafice of dynamics. Unless a class D amp has a massive power supply, it isnt going compete with the old-school amps. Technology advances have reduced the size of amps which opens a whole new world of installation possibilities so there are other advantages. Also crossover and equalization has come along way improving and shaping sound easier and more convieniently. Pretty much once amps started getting made over seas, quality went down hill in favor of mass production. Many of the great companies have been bought out and prostituted to the main stream market mainly to stay alive in this economy. I also feel surface mount technology has reduced relaibility in circuit boards so audio equipment just isnt as bullet proof as it use to be. Good amps still can be had, but you have to pay big money to get them. __________________ To the optimist, the glass is half full. To the pessimist, the glass is half empty. To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

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