Nismo audio upgrade- critique my planned setup

fuct · 04-27-2010, 04:07 PM

so that NISMO audio upgrade.... hows that thing coming?

speedfreak28 · 04-27-2010, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2fast4thelaw

I had to heavily paraphrase to keep it from being a book but I will touch on your notes.

What i first was trying to say is I did not change the slope of the crossovers. Also Phase and slope only directly affect each other in simple passive crossovers without phase compensation. Any decent passive crossover will have phase compensation. In my Focal crossovers they compensated for that shift so I had to alter them.

Also since I have my own software I calculate time alignment by distance between tweeter and mid woofer becasue its a more stable constant since once the drivers are installed they will never move.

A Zobel network is already designed into the Focal passive crossovers because the Focal tweeters are actually 8 ohm and the woofer is 4 ohm. I altered the values in an attempt to undue the phase compensation that was designed into the crossover which put me exactly where I wanted to be at 270 degrees off-axis.

I left the mid woofers as they were (off-axis) as I only needed to alter the tweeters in my installation. I did this to keep it less complicated becasue I knew I could use my eq to blend them.

I wasnt using the EQX to tame individual speakers but to tame the peaks at each octave. I also first tune the system by my ear as what sounds best to me. I then record my settings as my reference point. If and when I have my car RTA'd for competition I can record those settings as a competition reference point so I can go back in forth. Perfectly flat is not always ideal for all music for everyday listening at least for my tastes.

Remember, there are a hundred ways to skin a cat. What I did made a big improvement and greatly enhanced my imaging and overal tonality of the system. If I could have in hindsight I would have used the 3-way Focal poly kev set and had even more improvement. I wanted to keep the stock appearence and that would have been nearly impossible.

LOL funny you use the metaphor theres more than one way to skin a cat, It was exactly my thought when typing my last response. It just seems that you're taking the longest way to achieve the results, I was under the impression you had the car RTA'd. You can calculate all you want but without figuring out the vehicles internal volume and resonant frequency the crossover design was just a guess. This is why I prefer an electronic crossover. Essentially all the componets you changed in the crossover usinga program are a guess without measuring in car with an RTA. You cant figure out the phase diffence form the reflective materials without one.
Id scrap the passives all together and maybe use a DQX for all your tuning. There are som any in car variables that effect overall phase and stage height that in a competition SQ vehicle you have to be able to make small adjustments. In my truck I had been running a Clarion DRZ9255 and a DQX to take care of those issues. Now for a non competition vehicle, the passives will do the job just fine.
I would be interested in hte program you use Ive used a few different programs but theres always more to learn which was the original point I was trying to make to you...

2fast4thelaw · 04-27-2010, 07:13 PM

My methodologies may not be very efficient and you are correct, I have no way of calculating the inside of the car or measuring the refraction of sound from different materials. Much of what I have done is an educated guess and I am no where near exact but I am in the ball park.

The reason I chose to retain and modify passives is becasue I have years of experience playing with them and I enjoy doing it. Most of my experience comes from home audio which follows the same basic designs, but car audio enviornment throws a twist which makes it a challenge I couldnt resist.

As far as software is concered, I didnt like anything I found so I wrote my own software and over the years built upon it. I would be more than happy to share it with you but its not compiled and I dont have a compiler so I can't package it into a neat little installation file.

I have some really old programs that are more basic that were done in excel that are usefull. The crossover calc is only 1st and 2nd order crossovers and its basic but its usefull for building custom passives.

2fast4thelaw · 04-27-2010, 07:19 PM

This site will not let me upload .xls, or .rar files. If you want them, pm me with your email and I will send them to you.

speedfreak28 · 04-27-2010, 07:44 PM

pm sent. yea thats the problem with alot of programs is that a home audio environment is way different and makes it tons easier to use a passive network.

rockhounds · 05-10-2010, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2fast4thelaw

That is a good set up but for not much more I would recommend the following:

Alpine INA-W900 - It has Bur Brown 24Bit DACs!!! A true High-End double din unit.

JL Audio 600HD 4-channel (Add the Remote Bass Knob, its dead usefull) I feel JL HD amps are noticibly better than Alpine PDX amps.

Focal Polyglass 165 VRs or PolyKevlar K2R Power Series. These in my opinion are the very finest 2-way car audio speakers under $600.00. They will blow you away!

Zenclosures Speaker Box - JL Audio 12W3V3. In my opinion, the best SQ sub JL makes. Perfect match for the HD600 amp.
or
Stealth Enclosure by NAZAR with a JL 13TW5. This sub hits like a sledgehammer!

EQ - Audio Control EQX - I highly recommend this unit!! Its an excellent 10V pre-amp and you can really dial everything in to perfection.

First, thanks for your advices. I noticed that you suggested a JL Audio 600HD 4-channel to power up the Focal's midbass but I didn't see any recommendation for the subwoofer. I'm going on the same direction since I'm looking for SQ and JL looks to be the best shot. The only thing is that I think I'd get the 12W6V2 and I need an Amp for it... I think 1000 1v2 is too much and I need to know if the JL 500 1v2 is enough. Having this set up, should I need to trim or adjust anything on the doors? Do you think that the factory enclosure from JL is the best option to go?

PS - My head unit is an Avic Z110BT.

Thanks a lot!

2fast4thelaw · 05-10-2010, 11:05 PM

the JL 500.1 is perfect for the 12W6v2. That is an excellent subwoofer! A 1000 watts is just too much! If you havent bought an amp yet, I highly recommend the JL HD 900/5 amp. It will power your whole system very nicely.

I wouldnt drop the dough on a JL enclosure though, the ones from Zenclosures are very good and very reasonable.

You will need some spacers for your fronts but I think you can also get them from Zenclosures too and they do not cost much.

Nazar makes a nice eclosure for the 13Tw5 but I will tell you right now that the 12W6v2 is a much better sounding subwoofer. The 13Tw5 is louder but lacks the finess of the w6 series.

rockhounds · 05-11-2010, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2fast4thelaw

the JL 500.1 is perfect for the 12W6v2. That is an excellent subwoofer! A 1000 watts is just too much! If you havent bought an amp yet, I highly recommend the JL HD 900/5 amp. It will power your whole system very nicely.

I wouldnt drop the dough on a JL enclosure though, the ones from Zenclosures are very good and very reasonable.

You will need some spacers for your fronts but I think you can also get them from Zenclosures too and they do not cost much.

Nazar makes a nice eclosure for the 13Tw5 but I will tell you right now that the 12W6v2 is a much better sounding subwoofer. The 13Tw5 is louder but lacks the finess of the w6 series.

Thanks again buddy. I didn't buy the amp yet but are you sure the HD 900/5 will pull a 100% out of the potential on the sub or would be better to get a 10"? I mean, the sub channel has only 500 W... and the other 4 x 75 W... I heard something about those specs being not in RMS but I'm really not sure.
Also the factory battery is enough to power everything up?

speedfreak28 · 05-11-2010, 08:43 PM

I agree with 2 fast, 12w6v2 and the 900/5 is a great start, that is 500rms and the amps use regulated power supplies and put out that power from 2 ohm to 4 ohm

2fast4thelaw · 05-11-2010, 08:50 PM

Oh yeah, it definitly will! The 12W6V2 is rated to 400wrms so throwing 500 wrms on it will push it to its limits. The 900/5 is 500wrmsX1 and 100wrmsX4 and if you bridge the front and rear channels you will have 150wrmsx2 which is where you want to be when pushing a high-end 2-way or even 3-way component system.

I do recommend replacing the battery with a dry cell type battery. They are a big step above the lead/acid spiral cell battery and like 5 steps above an OEM nissan battery. Oddessye and Stinger are the only ones I know of. Your stock battery wont last long with an HD900/5 sucking on it. 1 year max!!

rockhounds · 05-11-2010, 09:12 PM

Thanks a lot guys. My understanding is that the 12W6v2 goes up to 600WRMS so I'm actually delivering 100WRMS with the 900/5 right? About the 4x100WRMS, how would be the best way to hook it up to the Focal Polyglass 165 VR 6.5-Inch 2-Way? Also, do you recommend the JL factory enclosure for the SW?

2fast4thelaw · 05-11-2010, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockhounds

Thanks a lot guys. My understanding is that the 12W6v2 goes up to 600WRMS so I'm actually delivering 100WRMS with the 900/5 right? About the 4x100WRMS, how would be the best way to hook it up to the Focal Polyglass 165 VR 6.5-Inch 2-Way? Also, do you recommend the JL factory enclosure for the SW?

I run my 12W6v2 in my Armada with a Alpine MRV-605 and its a tad too much. Anywhere between 350wrms and 450wrms is the sweet spot for this sub. A little more wont hurt as long as you are conservative witht he gains. I would bridge the front and rear channels and drive them at 150wrms. The Focals will take it as long as your crossover isnt too low and be conservative with the gains.

What i really like about the JL HD amps is the lack of bassboost or any equalization. It does not alter sound that is coming in, just pure amplication. I feel that bass equilization just colors the sound and only makes the amp work harder and start producing distortion a lot quicker. I feel the optional bass knob for this amp is very usefull.

If money is no object, then hell yes I recommend the JL enclosure. Otherwise similar results can be had for much less.

rockhounds · 05-12-2010, 12:45 AM

Awesome! Thanks again 2 fast... I think this setup will reach great results. Next problem is to find a good installer because I will not do it by myself.

Take care and I will post my feedback after getting everything done.

rockhounds · 05-12-2010, 10:10 PM

I've never installed an audio system before. Do you believe that I can do that easily? I talked to an installer today and he said that he would need to work something to fit the Focal 6.5" on the doors. Anybody did install those before?

rockhounds · 05-17-2010, 03:46 PM

Hey guys, quick question... I'll be installing the audio system by myself and I was wondering how can I install the tweeters. As I said, the Focals 6.5" support 75WRMS + the tweeters. I 'm thinking about bridging the 4 channels of my JL HD 900/5 into 2 channels but I don't know how to configure the crossover in order to avoid problems blowing up the 6.5" if I hook them up in series with the tweeters. Any suggestion?

Thanks!

04-27-2010, 07:13 PM	#33 (permalink)
2fast4thelaw Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Denver Co Age: 50 Posts: 403 Drives: 09 370Z Sport/MT6 Rep Power: 16	My methodologies may not be very efficient and you are correct, I have no way of calculating the inside of the car or measuring the refraction of sound from different materials. Much of what I have done is an educated guess and I am no where near exact but I am in the ball park. The reason I chose to retain and modify passives is becasue I have years of experience playing with them and I enjoy doing it. Most of my experience comes from home audio which follows the same basic designs, but car audio enviornment throws a twist which makes it a challenge I couldnt resist. As far as software is concered, I didnt like anything I found so I wrote my own software and over the years built upon it. I would be more than happy to share it with you but its not compiled and I dont have a compiler so I can't package it into a neat little installation file. I have some really old programs that are more basic that were done in excel that are usefull. The crossover calc is only 1st and 2nd order crossovers and its basic but its usefull for building custom passives. __________________ To the optimist, the glass is half full. To the pessimist, the glass is half empty. To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

04-27-2010, 07:19 PM	#34 (permalink)
2fast4thelaw Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Denver Co Age: 50 Posts: 403 Drives: 09 370Z Sport/MT6 Rep Power: 16	This site will not let me upload .xls, or .rar files. If you want them, pm me with your email and I will send them to you. __________________ To the optimist, the glass is half full. To the pessimist, the glass is half empty. To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

05-10-2010, 11:05 PM	#37 (permalink)
2fast4thelaw Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Denver Co Age: 50 Posts: 403 Drives: 09 370Z Sport/MT6 Rep Power: 16	the JL 500.1 is perfect for the 12W6v2. That is an excellent subwoofer! A 1000 watts is just too much! If you havent bought an amp yet, I highly recommend the JL HD 900/5 amp. It will power your whole system very nicely. I wouldnt drop the dough on a JL enclosure though, the ones from Zenclosures are very good and very reasonable. You will need some spacers for your fronts but I think you can also get them from Zenclosures too and they do not cost much. Nazar makes a nice eclosure for the 13Tw5 but I will tell you right now that the 12W6v2 is a much better sounding subwoofer. The 13Tw5 is louder but lacks the finess of the w6 series. __________________ To the optimist, the glass is half full. To the pessimist, the glass is half empty. To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

05-11-2010, 08:50 PM	#40 (permalink)
2fast4thelaw Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Denver Co Age: 50 Posts: 403 Drives: 09 370Z Sport/MT6 Rep Power: 16	Oh yeah, it definitly will! The 12W6V2 is rated to 400wrms so throwing 500 wrms on it will push it to its limits. The 900/5 is 500wrmsX1 and 100wrmsX4 and if you bridge the front and rear channels you will have 150wrmsx2 which is where you want to be when pushing a high-end 2-way or even 3-way component system. I do recommend replacing the battery with a dry cell type battery. They are a big step above the lead/acid spiral cell battery and like 5 steps above an OEM nissan battery. Oddessye and Stinger are the only ones I know of. Your stock battery wont last long with an HD900/5 sucking on it. 1 year max!! __________________ To the optimist, the glass is half full. To the pessimist, the glass is half empty. To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

05-11-2010, 09:12 PM	#41 (permalink)
rockhounds Base Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Miami/FL Posts: 67 Drives: 2009 GT-R Rep Power: 15	Thanks a lot guys. My understanding is that the 12W6v2 goes up to 600WRMS so I'm actually delivering 100WRMS with the 900/5 right? About the 4x100WRMS, how would be the best way to hook it up to the Focal Polyglass 165 VR 6.5-Inch 2-Way? Also, do you recommend the JL factory enclosure for the SW? __________________ “Three Rules of Work: Out of clutter find simplicity; From discord find harmony; In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity.” - Einstein

04-27-2010, 04:07 PM	#31 (permalink)
fuct A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: Sugar Land Posts: 3,692 Drives: 97' Ranger :) Rep Power: 24	so that NISMO audio upgrade.... hows that thing coming?

04-27-2010, 07:44 PM	#35 (permalink)
speedfreak28 Base Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: south jersey Posts: 247 Drives: 05 ram, 79 z28 Rep Power: 16	pm sent. yea thats the problem with alot of programs is that a home audio environment is way different and makes it tons easier to use a passive network.

05-11-2010, 08:43 PM	#39 (permalink)
speedfreak28 Base Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: south jersey Posts: 247 Drives: 05 ram, 79 z28 Rep Power: 16	I agree with 2 fast, 12w6v2 and the 900/5 is a great start, that is 500rms and the amps use regulated power supplies and put out that power from 2 ohm to 4 ohm

05-12-2010, 12:45 AM	#43 (permalink)
rockhounds Base Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Miami/FL Posts: 67 Drives: 2009 GT-R Rep Power: 15	Awesome! Thanks again 2 fast... I think this setup will reach great results. Next problem is to find a good installer because I will not do it by myself. Take care and I will post my feedback after getting everything done. __________________ “Three Rules of Work: Out of clutter find simplicity; From discord find harmony; In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity.” - Einstein

05-12-2010, 10:10 PM	#44 (permalink)
rockhounds Base Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Miami/FL Posts: 67 Drives: 2009 GT-R Rep Power: 15	I've never installed an audio system before. Do you believe that I can do that easily? I talked to an installer today and he said that he would need to work something to fit the Focal 6.5" on the doors. Anybody did install those before? __________________ “Three Rules of Work: Out of clutter find simplicity; From discord find harmony; In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity.” - Einstein

05-17-2010, 03:46 PM	#45 (permalink)
rockhounds Base Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Miami/FL Posts: 67 Drives: 2009 GT-R Rep Power: 15	Hey guys, quick question... I'll be installing the audio system by myself and I was wondering how can I install the tweeters. As I said, the Focals 6.5" support 75WRMS + the tweeters. I 'm thinking about bridging the 4 channels of my JL HD 900/5 into 2 channels but I don't know how to configure the crossover in order to avoid problems blowing up the 6.5" if I hook them up in series with the tweeters. Any suggestion? Thanks! __________________ “Three Rules of Work: Out of clutter find simplicity; From discord find harmony; In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity.” - Einstein

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