Haters is an ignorant term. I'm saying nothing against JL's quality. They make excellent subwoofers and amps. Their equipment is top notch and very capable of winning competitions. Saying that it is the standard makes no sense, however. That's like saying the Nissan is the standard for the mass automotive market. People look for many different things in audio, just as they look at many aspects when looking for a car (or maybe a truck or track toy or minivan).
I'm a realist, not a hater. I'm giving hard, cold facts. I've done my research and basing my opinions and statements on more than what I have owned/heard. When I had a problem with my Havoc (a little too much excursion at 22 Htz :rolleyes: ), it was very, very nice to be able to talk to the OWNER of the company directly to solve my issue (Scott). Customer service is top notch and those guys put a lot into the product they make.
Both subs are purely excellent choices, I'm just throwing an option out there besides the JL :nutswinger:'s. Nothing like a little bit of capitalistic competition!

PS - If this is your first REAL sub setup, the 13" W7 would be overkill. Capable of some huge scores and loud bass in a little hatchback.

I would have to agree that JL is the standard. It's a widely known brand with top notch engineering, quality control, performance, and customer service. Maybe some of these internet subs are better in some quantifiable way, but will they be around in 10 years or even 5?

standard is defined as: basis for comparison; a reference point against which other things can be evaluated

Only a well known and highly regarded brand can set a standard, something which none of the other brands are, or will be any time soon. Just by the nature of you claiming that the internet brand subs are "better" than JL you have made JL the standard. And once again, all of you people who bash JL on the price point need to learn to haggle. Local dealers have more margin than they lead on.

No car audio makes a standard. One company is better at something than another and on top of that everyone has there own opinion. If you think JL is worth the price be my guest. I just know there are many other company's out there that are even better and have much better sound than JL for lower prices. That is MY opinion.

You're missing the point. A standard is a means of comparison. Most everyone who gives a crap about car audio knows JL; therefor, JL is a benchmark or standard.

If there is no standard, then how can a sub sound better or worse? It's not a matter of opinion it is a matter of fact that JL is widely used as a benchmark for comparison of subs and amps. Making it a standard, not necessarily THE standard but a standard none the less.

You keep saying that you know of subs that cost less and sound better. But if there is no standard and all noise is a matter of opinion (your words) your own point is invalidated right? They can't sound better only different. You also fail to take in to account, as i've mentioned over and over, that JLs pricing is ultimately set by the dealer and there are great deals to be had.

Joey is correct in clarifying my original point about JL being a standard. We both understand that there may be other subs that people prefer. But for my money, no questions asked I go JL if I want a nice setup that will last and sound good. Also, JL is someting people know, that you can show off. People who look at a car with JL equipment know thats its nice stuff, its very respected


However, this post was started to decide about a 13w7. I believe I am the only one who has a w7 in my 370 that I know of. My 10w7 running at half its power hits RIDICULOUSLY HARD for daily driving. A 13w7 is almost sure to be unbearable. But it is your call if you want one.

I guess Matt and I are kind of stuck in the "underground" mentality of car audio. There are two sectors, in my opinion, of car audio: fanatic and consumer. We don't mean to offend anyone, it's just that to us, Fi IS the standard. Look as Steve Meade. Look at what he has done with the Ho and the Hoopty. Two beyond incredible vehicles. That Escalade has over 50,000 watts at its disposal!
We aren't meaning to be shoving our ideas, we are just trying to open the minds of everyone to all of the brands out there. That is it. I do understand what you are saying about JL being the broad-based industry standard, though, and I agree. Everyone knows about JL for sure.
This, after all, is a car forum, not an audio forum ;)

I agree we are not trying to affend just trying to help people get more bang for the buck and better quality.


You talk about recognizing a name and having respect.

Jeebus a 13w7 is a 1000+watt sub It is friggen overkill to the max. Might as well throw in triple 15" Memphis Mojo's while you are at it.

True, one could get 3 Nissan GT-R than 1 Lamborghini Gallardo; they both have similar 0-60 speed performance, and possibly similar track performance. But if I was filthy rich and I could only choose one it would definitely be the Lambo.

If the performance was the same between a Uniball ink pen vs a Mont Blanc pen, I would prefer the Mont Blanc pen. Same thing goes with Rolex watches vs other watches such as fossil, I would prefer the Rolex. Same goes with Louis Vuitton wallets I prefer that than others.

It is just human nature to want something better, we don't need over 100 horsepower to get to places, right? But we just want it for no practical reason.

YouTube - R-35 GTR Vs Gallardo,GT3,997T,NSX-R

If you buy car audio for the "WOW" factor for name brands and not sound quality your getting into car audio for the wrong reasons. Car audio is about improving the sound quality in your car.

The thing is that most people just don't care. They're no different from the wealthy woman that buys a Z because it is cute and never takes it over 4k RPM. They don't care what it can do, but they just get it because they want something that they know will work. Everyone has different passions, and stereo isn't a passion for everyone.

this coming from someone who reccomends audison and rainbow:icon18:

And they are wrong how?:rolleyes:

LOL we are talking about strapping on a 84ounce magnet to our cars.. you really hilighting the less weight as a plus? LOL

Me? Heck no I like to keep weight down if I can. But still have a nice balanced audio system.