Re: Rear Speakers or None?

hoodust · 12-18-2009, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigaudiofanat

Staging is all about what is in front of you not what is in rear. Think of it as a stage of a concert your sound is coming from in front of you not behind. When you add rears it is no long stereo.

No longer stereo? That's incorrect... it is still a two-channel source. Adding more speakers doesn't make it "surround sound"

I haven't tested this, but my point was that you might have better left/right staging with rear speakers.

Besides, by your logic it isn't "stereo" now because of the tweeters in the dash.

The only way staging wouldn't matter in rear speakers is if you had a sub and bridged left/right channels (since bass is theoretically non-directional).

hoodust · 12-18-2009, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldGuy

I'm noticing the back speakers in my car may not have sound coming from them. When I adjust the fade to 100% rear, there is nothing. If I am correct and there is no defect in my car, I ask if the rear speaker holes are pre-wired to accommodate new speakers? Would two speakers in the back improve the "surround characteristic" of the sound in the car? The quality, itself, is already acceptable. I see the two front speakers on the doors and two in the corners of the dash. I'm not an audio person. Can someone clarify?

Just and idea OldGuy, but maybe take a favorite CD to the dealership and try it out in a touring trim 370 just to see if there's any appreciable difference?

bigaudiofanat · 12-18-2009, 08:21 AM

With rear speakers you are having sound waves cancel out from your rear speakers coming in contact with your fronts. Also your stage gets shifted from being forward to being well somewhere where it shouldn't. Subs are not effected by left and right and in a lot of cases they are directional. Bass changes in many ways depending on where the sub is aimed.

370Zsteve · 12-18-2009, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flashburn

The obvious reason is like Matt already said, they aren't needed. Stick with front speakers only, unless you want a f'ed up sound stage.

The other obvious reason that you missed is weight savings. Although I can't imagine why if you want the rear speakers that you don't put them in. The sound would be better than just front speaks. Agree that the fronts should be upgraded as well and to go with a decent amp.

370Zsteve · 12-18-2009, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoodust

No longer stereo? That's incorrect... it is still a two-channel source. Adding more speakers doesn't make it "surround sound"

I haven't tested this, but my point was that you might have better left/right staging with rear speakers.

Besides, by your logic it isn't "stereo" now because of the tweeters in the dash.

The only way staging wouldn't matter in rear speakers is if you had a sub and bridged left/right channels (since bass is theoretically non-directional).

Roger that

Room42 · 12-19-2009, 11:33 AM

I don't think placement of speakers front or rear would inherently screw up a sound system. Wouldn't direction of sound and distance sound travels be stronger factors? And since these are configurable and can be tailored to a specific vehicle and audio configuration, you should be able to adjust power and direction to attenuate sound appropriately. So I could see where an oversized speaker setup like multiple big subs could just plain overpower the ability to fine tune, but some well configured 3.5"s should add value to the listening experience in a balanced system.

bigaudiofanat · 12-19-2009, 01:37 PM

Not when they are the only rear speakers and when they are directly at the ears of the listeners.

As what was said earlier, it is what is preferred by the listener. I like to get as realistic to the real thing as possible and that means no rears. Also in a car the size of the Z no rears are needed as stated earlier.

Zsteve · 12-19-2009, 04:03 PM

I had rear speakers in my other coupe that is the same size as the Z and it sounded good, Im actually used to hearing music from the back, so right now even with the Touring model Im kinda having to get used to not hearing from the rear.

bigaudiofanat · 12-19-2009, 04:08 PM

That is what I am saying it is preference if you are use to them than you will want them. As I stated I try not to use rears.

hoodust · 12-19-2009, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigaudiofanat

With rear speakers you are having sound waves cancel out from your rear speakers coming in contact with your fronts. Also your stage gets shifted from being forward to being well somewhere where it shouldn't. Subs are not effected by left and right and in a lot of cases they are directional. Bass changes in many ways depending on where the sub is aimed.

True, the quality of the bass sound is changed a lot by direction/position (i.e. facing the speaker backwards in a hatch often sounds louder/better). This is really because bass waves are "longer" and if they are too close to your ears they can't complete a full cycle (that's why bass sounds louder 10 feet away than it does right next to the source). By 'directional' I meant more left/right subs not really being necessary (since most music is mixed with the bass and kickdrum panned evenly between both channels anyways) but again it is a matter of personal preference and the audio recording.

Not sure what you mean by waves cancelling out from rears coming in contact with fronts. I think we're confusing "staging" and "sound position" (staging is left/right). Not trying to argue though and I agree with your bottom line: it is what your ear prefers. There's ground rules to reproducing good audio of course, but really no right or wrong way to do audio if it sounds right to the listener.

Getting back on topic, _personally_ I don't think rear speakers have too much to offer in a 2-seater.
/rant

hoodust · 12-19-2009, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Room42

I don't think placement of speakers front or rear would inherently screw up a sound system. Wouldn't direction of sound and distance sound travels be stronger factors? And since these are configurable and can be tailored to a specific vehicle and audio configuration, you should be able to adjust power and direction to attenuate sound appropriately. So I could see where an oversized speaker setup like multiple big subs could just plain overpower the ability to fine tune, but some well configured 3.5"s should add value to the listening experience in a balanced system.

Exactly. Balancing is the hardest part (I think this is what bigaudiofan meant about waves cancelling each other out).

The easiest way to balance is to have different speakers produce different (but slightly overlapping) frequency ranges, using speaker type and/or caps. Then you can easily tune front/back balance to taste. There are advantages to having some midrange behind you (maybe less so in the Z), but if it's aftermarket it might be harder to blend them in with the stock system seamlessly and still gain anything.

Given the same wattage, it'd be louder, easier and probably better quality to push fewer, well tuned speakers.

sorry for ranting but audio threads are just asking for it

aLTeReGo · 02-26-2011, 10:25 PM

Has anyone put speakers in the rear of their 370z and if so what do you recommend for a 3.5 inch speaker anyway?

My doors & dash are Focal's and I'd like to place the 4 inch Focal's in the rear because the door and dash simply don't fill the cabin adequately with sound. Has anyone placed 4 inch speakers in the rear, and if so do you have any pictures of the final results you'd be willing to share?

optiontrader · 02-27-2011, 12:51 PM

I know WickedCAS had a 3-1/2" Hertz mid that supposedly would fit back there.

With regards to the entire four speaker debate, I believe hoodust nailed it in the head. Rear speakers will affect positioning (BTW, the lower the frequency, the more unidirectional the sound becomes), not necessarily cancel the fronts out. Given the same signal and no phase shift, there won't be cancellation. Wire the rears 180 out of phase with the fronts - now you're talking some cancellation.

I've heard some very good surround effects in sedans in the past, when done properly. The Levinson systems in Lexus cars use some proprietary surround processing and sound amazing.

So rears won't kill a system if competently installed. But unless there's some added effect which adds to the sound, I prefer just two fronts in the car.

jayl · 03-02-2011, 11:15 AM

Its awesome to know that so many ppl have installed rear speakers...

Has anyone taking pic's during the wiring etc?

Thanks,

Wicked CAS · 03-04-2011, 11:27 AM

in the case of a 370Z where the speaker size is 3.5" and there realy isn't that many hi-end clean sounding 3." or 3.5" speakers out there unless you spend close to $200-400 (Voce or Hertz) I would suggest putting the money in the front speakers and maximize your listening pleasure. If you must do rears because you are so used to haveing rear speakers since you were 16 years old and that is all you ever had... Then do the rears... You will find yourself having the fader on the radio positioned more towards the front since the better sound will be in the front. If you do 3.5" speakers make sure you have some kind of a bass blocker in line... they will not keep up with low frequencies for long period of time.

12-18-2009, 08:21 AM	#48 (permalink)
bigaudiofanat Car Audio Installer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Magnolia DE Posts: 8,342 Drives: 2012 Infiniti G37x Rep Power: 853	With rear speakers you are having sound waves cancel out from your rear speakers coming in contact with your fronts. Also your stage gets shifted from being forward to being well somewhere where it shouldn't. Subs are not effected by left and right and in a lot of cases they are directional. Bass changes in many ways depending on where the sub is aimed. __________________ Need help with car audio or electronics? Let me know!! Need Help Let Me Know Direct email address reimermatt@gmail.com Owner of: Dynamic Mobile Audio Follow me below https://www.facebook.com/Dynamicmobileaudio/

12-19-2009, 11:33 AM	#51 (permalink)
Room42 Base Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 79 Drives: 09 370z white AT Rep Power: 16	I don't think placement of speakers front or rear would inherently screw up a sound system. Wouldn't direction of sound and distance sound travels be stronger factors? And since these are configurable and can be tailored to a specific vehicle and audio configuration, you should be able to adjust power and direction to attenuate sound appropriately. So I could see where an oversized speaker setup like multiple big subs could just plain overpower the ability to fine tune, but some well configured 3.5"s should add value to the listening experience in a balanced system. __________________ 20% tint \| Clear bra \| Invidia Gemini CB \| Stillen CAI Eibach Springs \| Stillen Sway Bars \| JDM rear fog light --------------------------------------------- Mustang Dyno - 291 \| Horsepower Logic

12-19-2009, 01:37 PM	#52 (permalink)
bigaudiofanat Car Audio Installer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Magnolia DE Posts: 8,342 Drives: 2012 Infiniti G37x Rep Power: 853	Not when they are the only rear speakers and when they are directly at the ears of the listeners. As what was said earlier, it is what is preferred by the listener. I like to get as realistic to the real thing as possible and that means no rears. Also in a car the size of the Z no rears are needed as stated earlier. __________________ Need help with car audio or electronics? Let me know!! Need Help Let Me Know Direct email address reimermatt@gmail.com Owner of: Dynamic Mobile Audio Follow me below https://www.facebook.com/Dynamicmobileaudio/ Last edited by bigaudiofanat; 12-19-2009 at 01:40 PM.

12-19-2009, 04:03 PM	#53 (permalink)
Zsteve A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: TX Posts: 3,298 Drives: the 2 balled club Rep Power: 22	I had rear speakers in my other coupe that is the same size as the Z and it sounded good, Im actually used to hearing music from the back, so right now even with the Touring model Im kinda having to get used to not hearing from the rear. __________________ 2010 LS3 C6 Silver coupe corvette

12-19-2009, 04:08 PM	#54 (permalink)
bigaudiofanat Car Audio Installer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Magnolia DE Posts: 8,342 Drives: 2012 Infiniti G37x Rep Power: 853	That is what I am saying it is preference if you are use to them than you will want them. As I stated I try not to use rears. __________________ Need help with car audio or electronics? Let me know!! Need Help Let Me Know Direct email address reimermatt@gmail.com Owner of: Dynamic Mobile Audio Follow me below https://www.facebook.com/Dynamicmobileaudio/

02-26-2011, 10:25 PM	#57 (permalink)
aLTeReGo Base Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: 127.0.0.1 Posts: 2 Drives: 2009 370z Rep Power: 14	370z Needs Rear Speakers Has anyone put speakers in the rear of their 370z and if so what do you recommend for a 3.5 inch speaker anyway? My doors & dash are Focal's and I'd like to place the 4 inch Focal's in the rear because the door and dash simply don't fill the cabin adequately with sound. Has anyone placed 4 inch speakers in the rear, and if so do you have any pictures of the final results you'd be willing to share?

02-27-2011, 12:51 PM	#58 (permalink)
optiontrader Track Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Smog Hell, SoCal Posts: 595 Drives: 40th Rep Power: 16	I know WickedCAS had a 3-1/2" Hertz mid that supposedly would fit back there. With regards to the entire four speaker debate, I believe hoodust nailed it in the head. Rear speakers will affect positioning (BTW, the lower the frequency, the more unidirectional the sound becomes), not necessarily cancel the fronts out. Given the same signal and no phase shift, there won't be cancellation. Wire the rears 180 out of phase with the fronts - now you're talking some cancellation. I've heard some very good surround effects in sedans in the past, when done properly. The Levinson systems in Lexus cars use some proprietary surround processing and sound amazing. So rears won't kill a system if competently installed. But unless there's some added effect which adds to the sound, I prefer just two fronts in the car. __________________ 40th Anniversary Z - 3M Paint Protection Film, CA Legal Tint! (70/40)

03-02-2011, 11:15 AM	#59 (permalink)
jayl Track Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: md Posts: 813 Drives: 09 370z base MT Rep Power: 16	Its awesome to know that so many ppl have installed rear speakers... Has anyone taking pic's during the wiring etc? Thanks,

03-04-2011, 11:27 AM	#60 (permalink)
Wicked CAS The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Kingston, NH. Posts: 469 Drives: 98 Supra 1036 RWHP Rep Power: 15	in the case of a 370Z where the speaker size is 3.5" and there realy isn't that many hi-end clean sounding 3." or 3.5" speakers out there unless you spend close to $200-400 (Voce or Hertz) I would suggest putting the money in the front speakers and maximize your listening pleasure. If you must do rears because you are so used to haveing rear speakers since you were 16 years old and that is all you ever had... Then do the rears... You will find yourself having the fader on the radio positioned more towards the front since the better sound will be in the front. If you do 3.5" speakers make sure you have some kind of a bass blocker in line... they will not keep up with low frequencies for long period of time. __________________ www.wickedcas.com Call: 603-642-4222 E-mail: Wickedcas@aol.com *DIRECT AUTHORIZED DEALER FOR:* AUDISON, HERTZ, JL AUDIO, JL AUDIO MARINE, KENWOOD EXCELON, COMPUSTAR, DIAMOND AUDIO, CACHE, ARC AUDIO, K40, PASSPORT ESCORT.

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