Hello members of the370z.com. I'd like to introduce myself, I'm Ravi Dolwani, General Manager of the Racing & High Performance Division of CSF Inc.
Ive been monitoring the forum, especially this thread during the development of our "patented" radiator/condenser module for the 370Z/G37. There seems to be a lot of interest and a lot of questions on what this unit will achieve. Hopefully my response below will help clear up any questions, assumptions, and misunderstandings associated with our product.
1) The original radiator/condenser unit is 32mm thick. With the radiator only being 15mm thick. In a high performance application, such as the 370Z/G37, a 1/2 inch thick radiator core is not very sufficient in properly cooling the engine when driven in spirited driving conditions, especially in hot weather. The cooling efficiency of the radiator is compromised even more because it first has to pass through the condenser, and the airflow to the unit is less than ideal due to the front fascia design. Depending on outside temperatures, there is a high possibility that by time the air finally passes through the radiator it is already hot.
The cooling efficiency will be even more compromised as many drivers choose to SC/TC or add long tube intakes to these vehicles adding another barrier between the radiator and fresh cold air. In a SC/TC setup, adding an intercooler to the front of the car will only make the air that finally enters the radiator even hotter.
Our unit is 48mm thick with a 30 mm radiator core (2X the size), a 5mm air escape gap, and a 13 mm condenser. When we first started designing this unit we wanted to manufacturer both pieces separately for several reasons below:
A) Air escape gap - The 5mm space between the radiator and condenser allows hot air to leave the cooling system, while allowing the colder (denser) air to pass through to the radiator.
B) Creates more surface area contact between the air and front surface of the radiator core, promoting greater cooling efficiency.
C) Allows the condenser to be removed from the vehicle for even better airflow and lighter weight for track and race applications.
2) My second item to discuss is the development, testing, and fitment of our cooling module. Let me first start this topic by saying:
"This has been one of the most difficult and challenging cooling systems our company has ever developed."
This statement may not mean a lot to all the readers who have never heard about our company or have little knowledge of us. But...
CSF has been in business for over 45 years and we've sold over 35 million radiators in the U.S. We're OE suppliers and partners to companies around the world such as Mercedes Benz, John Deer, Isuzu, Griffen, Stillen and Bombardier...
With all that said, this vehicle has presented us challenges due to the space restrictions, especially with the addition of other manufacturers parts (intakes, oil coolers, intercoolers) to take into account when designing this unit. Also, the radiator is mounted to the bottom of the core support, and the fan shroud is not moveable. In most cases the fan shroud mounts to the radiator which allows us to add the increase thickness to both the engine side and condenser side. This was not the case, and we had to design the unit with the additional 16 mm all towards the front of the car. By doing this we had to extend the condenser piping, and still make sure that it fit in the proper geometry of the original. This was very key because the condenser piping is attached to a bracket that is mounted on the core support.
For the automatic transmissions units, they use a 7 plate cooler. This type of cooler is new to the market ,and we are the first aftermarket manufacturer to be able to successfully develop it. This was especially a challenge considering how little space there was in the endtank to fit this large cooler.
As all you are aware, during the development of any high performance automotive product, there has to be a prototype test fitment. With parts that exceed the original size of the OEM unit test fitment is very key, especially when you are taking a unit made with plastic connections and hand fabricating it in metal (aluminum) and making it 33% thicker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle@STILLEN
It wasn't until a few weeks ago when I personally did the first test fitment for CSF and found that this unit did not fit. There were a number of issues that CSF is in the process of correcting
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I'd like to thank Kyle@Stillen for personally helping me to test fit this unit. It wasn't easy, and he took his whole morning to assist me. Regarding the number of issues... there were 2 very minor issues that were easily fixed by our designers and engineers.
1) The overhang of the screws that attach the radiator and condenser was hitting the fan shroud. - This problem was easily corrected, and the design is now flush with no overhang.
2) The mounting points were off by less than 5 mm on each side - I must say this was a setback as this caused the unit to not be able to be installed in the Nissan Corporate BRE race car that we were test fitting the unit onto. This correct location of the mounting points were personally marked by Kyle and then reviewed and corrected by our CEO at CSF himself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle@STILLEN
I know CSF's manufacturing procedures and I know that they do not have a 370Z to do the test fitment on, which is why we did it for them...
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We asked Stillen to do the test fit for us because they are our premiere distributor for our Racing & High Performance division, and we have built a long relationship with them for more than 5+ years. However, there are other prestigious tuning companies, specifically specializing in the Z platform who have offered to help us with fitment and data testing (I'll let them disclose who they are if they feel the need to join the discussion). We should have very credible testing data from one of the most trusted names on the forum in the next couple weeks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle@STILLEN
CSF has a 90 day manufacturing timeline. We did the test fitment for them early this month...So that means any unit they ship in August would be a unit that has not gone through a final test fitment. In my opinion, they need to make one more prototype that fits correctly before they go into production with these units. Unless they decide to make their changes and trust that they're 100% perfect, manufacture 25-50 units then do another test fitment and risk that they got it right the second time.
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I'm sorry Kyle, but your statement about our lead times is incorrect. You don't become the #1 import car radiator manufacturer in the world by not being able to fix a slight design change to a blueprint and making a final product. "Test fit once" is our motto over at CSF. We went through the same challenges when developing the Titan radiator for Stillen, we had to take a shipment of 25 pieces back because they didn't fit. We learn from experience, and this will not be happening again.
There will be no more prototype modules made, and we have already began production on a limited run of units (both auto and manual). Our CEO has over 35 years of experience and is a mechanical and industrial engineer. He has decided to air freight the first production unit for final fitment before the rest of the shipment leaves our factory, but he has stated that this is only insurance because he is confident the units will fit. It is our risk so it should not be a concern or a talking point to this discussion.
With the amount of time, resources, R&D, and expense we have committed to this unit along with our revamped high performance line (JDM quality, B-tube, polish etc..), it has been pushed to the front of our production schedule and we are aiming for a target delivery date by mid August - Sept 1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle@STILLEN
Additionally, these radiators will not help with oil cooling
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Well. we're gonna have just wait and see
This is my first post on this forum, so sorry to the administrator and readers for the length or if I haven't followed any rules. I'll be around to answer any questions that anyone may have.
I'd like to invite anyone who will be at the SEMA show to come visit our booth #24981 across from Honda. We'll have this unit on display and hopefully have some Formula Drift cars that we sponsor with our custom cooling units as well.
Good day Z community.