OMG; my 40th needs a new roof!

Verticity · 12-12-2012, 04:52 AM

Fellow Z owners,

I'm the second owner of a 40th Z I bought in June 2011. Although I'd been assured it was in mint condition, 18 months after buying it, paint is cracking and chipping on the roof, apparently due to a shoddy attempt at covering up some kind of damage. The repair is estimated at over $2000, but I'm most concerned about matching the paint.

I'll tell you the story to get it off my chest, but I'm mostly looking for advice about how to get it fixed right. I'm thinking about trying to find a paint shop that specializes in exotics and classics so I can be certain it'll be perfect, but I'm not sure.

As soon as I saw pictures of the 40th edition, I knew I had to have one, even though it was too late to get one new. I looked locally for months with no luck, so when I heard about one with 5k miles that was traded to a BMW dealer near Sacramento toward an M3, I had it checked out by the nearest Nissan dealer who said it was mint and then bought it sight unseen.

The first problem surfaced this summer around 10k miles when the commonly reported transmission bearing rattle became relentless and obnoxious enough that the dealer insisted on replacing it. Not wanting to sacrifice a numbers-matching vehicle, I agonized over the decision until last week when I finally decided a free warranty replacement now was better than an out-of-pocket rebuild later. I used the opportunity to save on some labor and had new headers and an exhaust installed at the same time.

I'd just returned to the dealership from my test drive and everything felt great. My service rep was in the midst of admiring the beautiful Graphite color when he pointed to a 1-inch long, C-shaped crack on the roof where the paint was separating from the body and asked, "What happened here?" It clearly wasn't new, but not having examined the passenger's side of the car anytime recently, I'd never noticed it before.

The string of expletives that escaped my mouth must have caught the attention of the service manager, because he came right over to investigate.

After looking at the damage closely and the rest of the roof for about 30 seconds, he asked, "Did you buy this car brand new?"
- "No."
"You're aware that this car has been painted before though, right?"
- "Uh, what?!"
"The paint is peeling because of bad body work. I'll bet anything there's body filler under there." Tapping his fingers all over the roof and shaking his head at the changing timbre of metal versus filler, he concluded that the roof had been damaged and filled in several places. "And if you look closely along the roof gasket, you can see the overspray. Here you can see where the color was built up and here's where the clear coat mask is. I used to paint cars for a living. I can guarantee you it didn't come from the factory like that because the gasket would have been installed afterward."

I'm not sure how to describe the disappointment and anger that washed over me in that moment, but I'm sure you understand. On one hand, I'd bought the car used, so I couldn't expect it to be perfect. On the other hand, since the sale was online, I did as much research as possible. The re-selling dealer's report was flawless, the Carfax was clean, Nissan's service history of the car was good and I'd even paid the nearby Nissan dealer to pick it up, drive it back to their shop and perform a thorough inspection, including a check of the VIN to ensure it was factory-built as a 40th Anniversary car and that it didn't have any signs of accident damage. Everything had come up roses, so I pulled the trigger. Now I felt like I'd been scammed.

Doing a more thorough inspection of the roof revealed another half-dozen signs of cracking and crazing in all of the spots where the timbre was wrong. It's clear that at some point, the roof must've been mangled.

After that, we searched high and low and never found any more evidence of body work, panel bolts having been removed, cracked paint on the chassis, or a single other detail out of place. Considering that the damage is localized to the roof and it came from California, hail damage seems impossible. Was it the victim of an angry golf club or baseball-bat-wielding girlfriend? Maybe. Was it crashed into the top bar of a lift? Who knows. I doubt I'll be able to learn the previous owner's identity, so he won't be telling me any time soon. I'll probably never know what really happened.

Now for the work. I've taken it to two local body shops who both said the same thing. They won't know the cost until they grind back all the paint and old Bondo to see what they're working with. A repair will be very labor-intensive and probably cost at least $1500. A new roof is $700, so with the labor to install and paint it, I would expect to pay just over $2000. Both shops believe a new roof is the most likely outcome and it seems to me that just asking them to replace the roof and forego any repair of the old one would go farther toward preventing a similar peeling issue again in the future. On the other hand, I rather like the idea of grinding it back in an attempt to learn what really happened, even though it would most likely be fruitless.

Any advice you all can offer would be very much appreciated. They'll probably want to feather the paint into the nearby panels as well, to account for any color variation. Would I be better off forbidding that so they can't mess up the good paint? I'm not sure what to do. It'll never be perfect again, but I would at least like it to look and behave the part...

Cheers.

FairladyZ · 12-12-2012, 06:23 AM

I'd say drop the old roof.

Because the previous damage had to have bondo on it...... i assume even after they grind it all back they would still have to use some to resurface and smooth it out. Which In the long run the same thing would happen again.

It's unfortunate but you have the opportunity to do it right. Just get a brand new roof. It costs money but in the end you would be happier

Jasonle · 12-12-2012, 07:26 AM

^ I agree... Just get a new roof and you will be happy.

Mikes350z · 12-12-2012, 10:08 AM

agree with ^

However the Nissan dealer that checked it out and said it was mint, how did they convey this information to you? Through email? Do you have records of their statements that the car was in mint condition? Also do you have contact info from the BMW dealer stating the condition of the car or guaranteeing it?

If so, contact them both and inform them the car has prior damage and it will cost you to repair the roof and tell them they have to pay or contribute to the repair bill. If they say no, contact an attorney and show him the statements from both dealers, have him draft a demand letter to both dealers stating they violated (your state) law for falsifying information and misrepresenting material items in a contract. This should straighten them out and one will pay or contribute.

At worst, you scare the dealers and pay the roof yourself, at which point you sue the dealers through said attorney.

(this does not constitute legal advice)

kellyefields · 12-12-2012, 10:15 AM

If you did a carfax they have a guarentee that is something is wrong with the vehicle and they did not have it reported that they buy it back or cover the cost of the repair from my understanding. the whole premise of using their service.

karotZ · 12-13-2012, 04:45 AM

What I would do if I were in your shoes, I'd sand it and see if there are any holes. If there's not, then I'd prime it to make it even and then purchase and install an NRG CF roof cap as a temporary solution w/o spending too much. And when you are ready to paint, you can do it before you sell the car or do it when you can then sell the CF roof cap.

DEpointfive0 · 12-13-2012, 05:00 AM

"Numbers matching vehicle"
Brother, right there, you're too anal... Might wanna save those original brake pads and tires too, lol

On the other hand, I agree with the above posters to call the BMW dealershit, as well as the Nissan dealershit who looked over the car, something should have been noticed.
THEN contact CarPOS (they're a joke... I've seen PLENTY of cars with accident repairs that don't get reported) and tell them they should pay for the repair.

If you're still screwed at the end of the day, get a new roof, ($1300 to paint/install seems a bit high, even for a good quality paint job) and if you go that route, have them do a few extra coats of clear

DEpointfive0 · 12-13-2012, 05:07 AM

By the way, it DOES hail in CA, not often, but it does... So my money is on hail or golf ball... Maybe the other hail dents were taken out, but one was too deep? Check the hood for defects too...
(I love your service managers tapping method, I check all my cars using the tapping method and checking for overspray/clear coat tape lines before I buy them)

Z-Girl 12 · 12-13-2012, 06:34 AM

That totally sucks...

onzedge · 12-13-2012, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z-Girl 12

That totally sucks...

Pintsize725 · 12-13-2012, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEpointfive0

Check the hood for defects too...

and spot check the hatch. I'm kind of in the same boat as you but just going to go through my insurance to fix it. Good luck!

DEpointfive0 · 12-13-2012, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pintsize725

and spot check the hatch. I'm kind of in the same boat as you but just going to go through my insurance to fix it. Good luck!

You're going through insurance?!?!?! ;-(

Pintsize725 · 12-13-2012, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEpointfive0

You're going through insurance?!?!?! ;-(

Nissan denied my defect claim. I clayed the car this past weekend and found a spot on the hatch that matches the cracking on the hood.

SmallermouseZ · 12-13-2012, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pintsize725

Nissan denied my defect claim. I clayed the car this past weekend and found a spot on the hatch that matches the cracking on the hood.

i guess it's time to get a full cf amuse hood!

mults · 12-14-2012, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellyefields

If you did a carfax they have a guarentee that is something is wrong with the vehicle and they did not have it reported that they buy it back or cover the cost of the repair from my understanding. the whole premise of using their service.

If the damage was fixed by the original owner, it probably won't show up on the Car Fax report. We sold my mother-in-laws car to a local dealer, and the Car Fax report they ran on it did not show any of the body repairs that were done during the time she owned it. We did, however, let the dealer know what was not reported because it was the right thing to do.

12-12-2012, 04:52 AM	#1 (permalink)
Verticity Base Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Lafayette, CO Posts: 2 Drives: 40th Anniversary Z Rep Power: 14	OMG; my 40th needs a new roof! Fellow Z owners, I'm the second owner of a 40th Z I bought in June 2011. Although I'd been assured it was in mint condition, 18 months after buying it, paint is cracking and chipping on the roof, apparently due to a shoddy attempt at covering up some kind of damage. The repair is estimated at over $2000, but I'm most concerned about matching the paint. I'll tell you the story to get it off my chest, but I'm mostly looking for advice about how to get it fixed right. I'm thinking about trying to find a paint shop that specializes in exotics and classics so I can be certain it'll be perfect, but I'm not sure. As soon as I saw pictures of the 40th edition, I knew I had to have one, even though it was too late to get one new. I looked locally for months with no luck, so when I heard about one with 5k miles that was traded to a BMW dealer near Sacramento toward an M3, I had it checked out by the nearest Nissan dealer who said it was mint and then bought it sight unseen. The first problem surfaced this summer around 10k miles when the commonly reported transmission bearing rattle became relentless and obnoxious enough that the dealer insisted on replacing it. Not wanting to sacrifice a numbers-matching vehicle, I agonized over the decision until last week when I finally decided a free warranty replacement now was better than an out-of-pocket rebuild later. I used the opportunity to save on some labor and had new headers and an exhaust installed at the same time. I'd just returned to the dealership from my test drive and everything felt great. My service rep was in the midst of admiring the beautiful Graphite color when he pointed to a 1-inch long, C-shaped crack on the roof where the paint was separating from the body and asked, "What happened here?" It clearly wasn't new, but not having examined the passenger's side of the car anytime recently, I'd never noticed it before. The string of expletives that escaped my mouth must have caught the attention of the service manager, because he came right over to investigate. After looking at the damage closely and the rest of the roof for about 30 seconds, he asked, "Did you buy this car brand new?" - "No." "You're aware that this car has been painted before though, right?" - "Uh, what?!" "The paint is peeling because of bad body work. I'll bet anything there's body filler under there." Tapping his fingers all over the roof and shaking his head at the changing timbre of metal versus filler, he concluded that the roof had been damaged and filled in several places. "And if you look closely along the roof gasket, you can see the overspray. Here you can see where the color was built up and here's where the clear coat mask is. I used to paint cars for a living. I can guarantee you it didn't come from the factory like that because the gasket would have been installed afterward." I'm not sure how to describe the disappointment and anger that washed over me in that moment, but I'm sure you understand. On one hand, I'd bought the car used, so I couldn't expect it to be perfect. On the other hand, since the sale was online, I did as much research as possible. The re-selling dealer's report was flawless, the Carfax was clean, Nissan's service history of the car was good and I'd even paid the nearby Nissan dealer to pick it up, drive it back to their shop and perform a thorough inspection, including a check of the VIN to ensure it was factory-built as a 40th Anniversary car and that it didn't have any signs of accident damage. Everything had come up roses, so I pulled the trigger. Now I felt like I'd been scammed. Doing a more thorough inspection of the roof revealed another half-dozen signs of cracking and crazing in all of the spots where the timbre was wrong. It's clear that at some point, the roof must've been mangled. After that, we searched high and low and never found any more evidence of body work, panel bolts having been removed, cracked paint on the chassis, or a single other detail out of place. Considering that the damage is localized to the roof and it came from California, hail damage seems impossible. Was it the victim of an angry golf club or baseball-bat-wielding girlfriend? Maybe. Was it crashed into the top bar of a lift? Who knows. I doubt I'll be able to learn the previous owner's identity, so he won't be telling me any time soon. I'll probably never know what really happened. Now for the work. I've taken it to two local body shops who both said the same thing. They won't know the cost until they grind back all the paint and old Bondo to see what they're working with. A repair will be very labor-intensive and probably cost at least $1500. A new roof is $700, so with the labor to install and paint it, I would expect to pay just over $2000. Both shops believe a new roof is the most likely outcome and it seems to me that just asking them to replace the roof and forego any repair of the old one would go farther toward preventing a similar peeling issue again in the future. On the other hand, I rather like the idea of grinding it back in an attempt to learn what really happened, even though it would most likely be fruitless. Any advice you all can offer would be very much appreciated. They'll probably want to feather the paint into the nearby panels as well, to account for any color variation. Would I be better off forbidding that so they can't mess up the good paint? I'm not sure what to do. It'll never be perfect again, but I would at least like it to look and behave the part... Cheers. __________________ Verticity 40th Anniversary \| STILLEN Headers, Exhaust and Gen-III Intake

12-12-2012, 06:23 AM	#2 (permalink)
FairladyZ Track Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 850 Drives: 2012 370Z TRNG SPRT Rep Power: 17	I'd say drop the old roof. Because the previous damage had to have bondo on it...... i assume even after they grind it all back they would still have to use some to resurface and smooth it out. Which In the long run the same thing would happen again. It's unfortunate but you have the opportunity to do it right. Just get a brand new roof. It costs money but in the end you would be happier onzedge and DEpointfive0 like this.

12-12-2012, 07:26 AM	#3 (permalink)
Jasonle A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: St. Louis Posts: 3,509 Drives: 09 370z Rep Power: 25	^ I agree... Just get a new roof and you will be happy. __________________ 2009 Nissan 370z/2003 Honda Soccer Van Shineauto Amuse Body Kit/UAM Fenders/Bc Br Coilovers/Topspeed Exhaust/Racing Hart Wheels and More My Sexy Beast

12-12-2012, 10:08 AM	#4 (permalink)
Mikes350z Base Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Bergen County, NJ Posts: 248 Drives: 09 370Z MagBlack M6 Rep Power: 14	agree with ^ However the Nissan dealer that checked it out and said it was mint, how did they convey this information to you? Through email? Do you have records of their statements that the car was in mint condition? Also do you have contact info from the BMW dealer stating the condition of the car or guaranteeing it? If so, contact them both and inform them the car has prior damage and it will cost you to repair the roof and tell them they have to pay or contribute to the repair bill. If they say no, contact an attorney and show him the statements from both dealers, have him draft a demand letter to both dealers stating they violated (your state) law for falsifying information and misrepresenting material items in a contract. This should straighten them out and one will pay or contribute. At worst, you scare the dealers and pay the roof yourself, at which point you sue the dealers through said attorney. (this does not constitute legal advice) DEpointfive0 likes this. __________________ '09 370Z Touring w/Sport & Nav 6-Speed Magnetic Black Persimmon HKS NAV Tool Backup Camera 35% Tint SOLD 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee Altitude Dark Gray

12-12-2012, 10:15 AM	#5 (permalink)
kellyefields A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Lexington Ky #BBN Age: 48 Posts: 1,156 Drives: Supercharged Rep Power: 17	If you did a carfax they have a guarentee that is something is wrong with the vehicle and they did not have it reported that they buy it back or cover the cost of the repair from my understanding. the whole premise of using their service. DEpointfive0 likes this. __________________ MY 2009 SC BUILD.

12-13-2012, 04:45 AM	#6 (permalink)
karotZ Track Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: not found Posts: 723 Drives: on empty tank of gas Rep Power: 15	What I would do if I were in your shoes, I'd sand it and see if there are any holes. If there's not, then I'd prime it to make it even and then purchase and install an NRG CF roof cap as a temporary solution w/o spending too much. And when you are ready to paint, you can do it before you sell the car or do it when you can then sell the CF roof cap. DEpointfive0 likes this. __________________ VERTEX \| SUIVAX \| AMUSE \| SSR \| SPARCO \| STILLEN \| FAST INTENTIONS x HKS \| HANKOOK \| NARDI \| NRG \| EVO-R \| ROBISPEC \| SPC

12-13-2012, 05:00 AM	#7 (permalink)
DEpointfive0 Premium Member Bitches Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: SoCal Posts: 14,824 Drives: a lot Rep Power: 17151	"Numbers matching vehicle" Brother, right there, you're too anal... Might wanna save those original brake pads and tires too, lol On the other hand, I agree with the above posters to call the BMW dealershit, as well as the Nissan dealershit who looked over the car, something should have been noticed. THEN contact CarPOS (they're a joke... I've seen PLENTY of cars with accident repairs that don't get reported) and tell them they should pay for the repair. If you're still screwed at the end of the day, get a new roof, ($1300 to paint/install seems a bit high, even for a good quality paint job) and if you go that route, have them do a few extra coats of clear

12-13-2012, 05:07 AM	#8 (permalink)
DEpointfive0 Premium Member Bitches Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: SoCal Posts: 14,824 Drives: a lot Rep Power: 17151	By the way, it DOES hail in CA, not often, but it does... So my money is on hail or golf ball... Maybe the other hail dents were taken out, but one was too deep? Check the hood for defects too... (I love your service managers tapping method, I check all my cars using the tapping method and checking for overspray/clear coat tape lines before I buy them)

12-13-2012, 06:34 AM	#9 (permalink)
Z-Girl 12 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Florida Posts: 4,105 Drives: Spirited Rep Power: 11716	That totally sucks... __________________ 2012 Z-SOLD 2014 Nismo #565 Fast Intentions CBE/HFC/Swift/SPC/RJM/H&R-15/20mm/Z1 CAI/Headers/Intake Manifold w/Uprev Tune 328.31whp/263.64tq

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