Quote:
Originally Posted by viiv
First of all I want to make a disclaimer here, that when I refer to Ford here I am only talking about their body on frame truck vehicles, which are pretty decent quality wise.
I am not talking about any of their unibody crossovers or cars here.
Order of US market truck reliability.
1. Toyota
far ahead of...
2. Ford
which in of itself is far ahead...
3. Chevrolet
4. Fiat-Chrysler (Dodge Ram, Jeep)
FCA makes pretty much the worst vehicles on the planet (with Jaguar-Land Rover not being much better). Do Ford trucks have Toyota level quality? No.
But Ford is much better than any Fiat-Chrysler (or Jaguar Land Rover) product and anyone who buys a new Jeep is a sucker and a fool. Friends don't let friends be suckered into any FCA product.
Previously, the only body on frame SUVs I would consider are:
1. Toyota Land Cruiser / Lexus LX570
2. Toyota 4Runner / Lexus GX470
3. Nissan Patrol / Infiniti QX80
There is a reason why the above vehicles are all of what you will see on an expedition into the Saraha desert and you will never see a Jeep. A vehicle breakdown in the middle of the Sahara desert equals death with a money-back guarantee.
and now the Ford Bronco. Is it better quality wise than a Toyota Land Cruiser? Hell no.
But it is the only body on frame SUV now with a manual transmission that is not made by FCA and that is why I want one.
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I guess my wife and I are fools then we’ve owned 4 Jeeps over the past 20 years, an 01 tj that was flawless, a 05 tj rubicon that was a piece of sh1t that must’ve been made Friday afternoon or Monday morning, my 17 jkur which was my wife’s daily driver for 2 1/2 years and then I took it to be my rig/toy also flawless, and her current 19 jlur which up until the pandemic hit was averaging 20k miles per year for her work again also great, and no frame weld issues etc bc I checked it out and it’s a mid 19 model year build.
Wife and I have owned at least 40 cars and trucks between the two of us, we love jeeps but aren’t blind to their faults, as I stated earlier, I’m excited about the bronco bc we need more body on frame real suvs on the road. But it’s still ifs, with all kinds of electronic high tech off road trickery which is bound to fail at the worst possible time. Chasing a mechanical issue is usually pretty straight forward and trail fixes aren’t impossible. Chasing electrical issues/gremlins can quickly turn into a nightmare and less easy to fix on the fly.
You listed a couple yotas and Nissan for Sahara expedition and I’m assuming you’re also referring to Dakar type rallying. First of all, Jeep historically has barely had a presence outside of North America, those makes and vehicles have been easily available around the world for decades.
Now let’s go a bit deeper, why are you rarely ever to see land cruisers, 4runners and Nissans going off-road here in America? I’m not talking about the old 80s solid front axle rigs, but the more recent ones from the 90s on up.
The answer is they aren’t durable enough to cut the mustard on the rubicon trail, Moab, Johnson valley etc.
No one is building a KOH production class race rig out of any yota or Nissan. Jeep rules these environments.
Why is that? Simply put, there is a difference between durable and reliable. The Toyota’s and nissans have historically been pretty reliable, although the two Xterras we’ve owned-a 10 and a 15 were both beset with annoying electrical gremlins that were unfixable. However, they are nowhere near as durable as a Jeep.
I won’t argue the point that Toyota and Nissan are generally more reliable than Jeep, but my personal experience with Jeeps has proven them to be decent reliability wise, of course they could be better, but it’s easier to improve on reliability than it is to build up durability into ones truck.
Jeeps are also much easier and straightforward to fix and beef up whatever needs beefing up compared to the Nissan and Toyota’s.
As far as the bronco, I’m excited it finally is coming, but I’m sticking with my Jeeps since I’m apparently a sucker and a fool.
Oh, and I suppose I should now include the obligatory mopar or no car! statement.
