Quote:
Originally Posted by RicerX
My biggest hangup is this - how many "halo sports cars" are out there built almost entirely by another automaker?
GT-R - 100% Nissan. Corvette - 100% GM. Ford GT... Mercedes AMG GT... Acura NSX... Porsche anything... BMW M... Audi R8 (platform shared with a sister automaker, ok...)... Even Subaru's halo car is 100% Subaru in the WRX/STI.
This is the new Supra's problem - it's the brand's performance beacon and they've basically presented their potential as a performance brand being dependent on an automaker who actually builds performance cars. As a brand, pride has to take the front seat for products like this. It's literally the one/only product where it is OK to take a monetary hit to fulfill that.
The pretense of a halo car is "if external factors were not an object, this is what we build without compromise". The message Toyota has sent here is "we want to look like we give a ****, so here's a BMW dressed up as the part." Whether that was the intent or not, that's how it comes across.
People would have bought a pure Supra for $100k. Without question. However, they will find people to buy these things, and as buyers, we can control the idea that we'll buy something if you just pretend it's to the standard you prefer as a buyer.
I am happy to see this car for no other reason than if it serves as proof the sports car market can still live IN SPITE OF the corner cutting that has to be done to bring something like this to market. That's the only point of optimism I have with this thing. Otherwise, it serves as precedent to pumping out nostalgia without the substance becoming acceptable.
If someone tells me "we'll make another Z car, but we gotta buy the entirety of it from Volkswagen or we can't do it," I will say to them "kill the Z with fire."
I appreciate what BMW can build, but what I further appreciate is BMW always did it on their own steam. The M cars are in-house, fully envisioned and executed, and unmistakably BMW.
Let's say the new Supra sets the Earth on fire with its performance, is that Toyota's accomplishment? Or is it BMW's? If that's your halo car, you cannot create the opportunity that someone else can take the credit.
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I try to look at it like this... Let's say this Supra sets the world on fire? And sales go back to 80's or early 90's levels. 30,000 units annually. Toyota would have made enough money that the 2nd gen, we may have a 3jz?
The thing about all those other cars you mentioned is they come from car companies that build semi exotics. And Chevy still enjoys sales numbers of over 10,000 units.
The fault isn't in Toyota. It's in all the pansies buying snoozemobiles. Glorifying electrified cars and crossovers and enthusiasts who DONT make the SACRIFICE of buying new. Example. How many people here bought a new Z? Then people wonder why Nissan has the same car out for a decade. The GTR, unlike the Z enjoyed a consistent run in Japan without ever being canceled. The car is a living legend. Now that Nissan brought it here after 40 yrs of waiting. I realize the american market doesn't deserve it. Cuz all these sports cars are getting ruined trying to meet the elitist luxury minded upper middle class. We can't even have a raw sports car. Everyone complains and wants a smooth DCT... Why? So car companies give them what they can make smooth. A slushbox. But then the public complains it's a slushbox. Everyone screams for a manual but all chase the one manual car motor trend and road and track praise. So why should the car companies keep putting manuals in their car models if no one is buying them?
The more I read people's stupid demands on forums and bytchy complaints... Can we expect any less than car companies making a low financial impact sports car that sells 5000 units a year.
And if they made a GTR competitor. What they gonna sell. 750 units out the gate after a 20 yr hiatus like the unsuccessful and nobody bought NSX. The NSX was a 180000 sports car now being sold at 130000 cuz no one will buy it. And no one is still buying it with the 50k cut. I have little faith Iin any 100k subpremium car right now. We have to support the new car enthusiast market and a lot aren't doing that. I do! But many don't.