Quote:
Originally Posted by Chupacabra
For a second there I though that everything i learned at racing school and years of racing was wrong, but then RCZ calmed my concern.
now my question is, i was playing with the traction control system, because it was a sunday.... I noticed that when you kick the tale out and hit the throttle, the computer disengages the throttle, and well it corrects the 'spin' for you.... now I know that this is what its supposed to do, it applies the right amount of power. But question is if you are going at high speeds and get into a spin, will the computer still save you a$$ or does it just say "oh f*ck it let the driver figure it out" and give you control back.
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The thing is the computer reacts much faster and knows you're sliding before you even know it. It corrects the slide before the slide becomes a slide. If its too late, the ecu will apply throttle and brakes to control the slide as it detects which wheel has traction and which one doesn't. Traction control is way more complicated and advanced than most people know.. There is only SO much the computer can do though, if you get into an uncontrollable spin the computer will try to regain traction, however it is often futile. To answer your question of whether or not you get control again if the computer cant figure it out, the answer is no. If you decided to slam on the gas in the middle of your spin, the car won't let you. (not to mention that is a strategy best reserved for video games). Applying gas in that situation will only make things worst.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pagefaulted
I don't understand, are you people kicking out the rear on public roads on purpose?
When I start to fishtail my natural reaction is to disengage the clutch and but not touch the brakes. You're saying this is incorrect?
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Ya, that is incorrect. It is actually the worst thing you can do. The moment you disengage the clutch you lose any ability to use the throttle to control the slide. Not to mention it is just as much of a shock to traction and balance as if you suddenly got off the throttle mid slide. Remember, all your inputs should lead to a smooth change in the overall dynamics of the car. If your car is doing very abrupt weight shifts either front and back or side to side, you aren't driving it right.
In high performance situations: When you press the gas you should be able to count from 1 to 5 at least in the process. Meaning the process of going from 0% to 100% throttle should take however long it takes you to say: one, two, three, four, five. When you press the brake you should be able to count from 3-6 in the process of going from 0% to 100% brake.
Similarly with turning, you should try to avoid turning abruptly in either direction. If you turn abruptly it will unsettle the car and often cause you to understeer (plow). Turn-in should always be smooth and controlled.
"But RCZ, when I watch anything from rally to timeattack to F1, the drivers are often flailing their hands around very abruptly! What gives!?"
Their inputs may be fast and abrupt, but if you ever see a shot from OUTSIDE the car, the car is moving very very smoothly. That is what matters. The weight transfers must be smooth and the movement of the car must be smooth. You may have to flail your hands around like a maniac at times, more so when you are driving race cars than street cars. (Think Karting if anyone has ever done it. Turn 1 at my local kart track is a flat out full speed right hander that leads into a very tight right hairpin. Sometimes I may have to catch not 1, but 5 or 6 slides in just that one corner. Hands flail, but the kart follows a smooth path. Yes I have also 720'd straight through the tirewall on the outside of the corner, but we won't talk about that). Again, be smooth and you will be faster and safer than everyone else.
Tying back to my original response; letting the clutch out/letting off the gas abruptly/braking = abrupt weight transfers = not good. The moment you lift off the gas it shifts the weight OFF the rear wheels and towards the fronts. I'm not going to get into the physics of friction and grip, but you can imagine that when there is less "weight" or force pushing down on the rear wheels, there is going to be less grip. Less grip = you're off the road.
Lastly, I should add that this logic applies also when you have FULL grip. If you are taking a fast sweeping corner and you let off the gas abruptly or tap the brakes, it will take weight off the rear tires and therefore you will loose grip and you will spin. You may have heard about this, it is referred to as "lift throttle oversteer" It is one of the most common major mistakes that rookies make on the track. If anyone remembers the pictures of the 997 GT2 I put up a while back, the one that crashed...guess what happened...yeah. Having the weight at the rear of the porsche helps grip until you lift and lose grip, then it becomes a pendulum.