Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordo!
Okay... so your problem is the presence or absence of a torque converter.
Fine.
Question: Given the following two options, would you prefer a clunky or slow-shifting non-torque converter equipped car or a fast-shifting torque converter equipped car? (we'll leave the shifter and 3rd pedal out of this).
Your answer will address my point that this is all about perceived "manual-ness", not performance, not design.
And here's the thing -- you and I (and I guess FERRARI), at least, are NOT debating preference, but rather pretending to do so.
You and he are telling us -- maybe very seriously, maybe not -- that a TRUE, PURE, PROPER sports car will not have a torque converter involved in the mix in any way, shape, or form.
This raises some questions about, say, V8 Jaguar F-types (I think they introduced a standard for the latest V6's that have gotten mixed reviews...).
Anyway, unless I'm missing your point, you are saying that the presence or absence of a torque converter trumps all other design and performance issues in terms of a car's pure sportiness.
If someone feels that way, then essentially that person is saying preference is irrelevant to the matter at hand, which is how does one define a sports car.
Look at this way: There's many, many different sects of various religions -- say, for, example the many different Christian faiths.
A Unitarian or agnostic approach might involve seeing equal merit (or lack thereof) in any given form of spirituality, taking the position that no one knows which religious secular view (or even if any faith) is "right".
However, you are nailing the 95 Thesis to my torque converter. You are telling Pope torque converter you want an annulment. You are telling me that a torque converter is wrong.
You are telling people "chocolate is better than vanilla" -- period, end of story, not "to each their own".
Simply saying, "sure, everyone is entitled to their perceptions on this issue" is very different from saying "everyone's perceptions on this issue are of defensibly equal value and accuracy".
In short, if you feel strongly that there is a "correct" and "incorrect" answer to the question of "What constitutes a proper sports car's transmission", then at best you are agreeing to disagree.
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In the absence of a valid argument one must turn to jibberish to formulate a counter point, as you have just proven, but I will do my best to make some semblance of sense out of your completely nonsensical response.
First and foremost, you need to work on your reading comprehension (this might also allow you to formulate a sensical rebuttal rather than the jibberish you just assaulted our eyes with). I never claimed that one was better than the other just my personal preference.
Second, your entire rant about slow shifting versus fast shifting is the classical non-sequitor fallacy, ie it does not follow, as I would not prefer either.
Third, you continually go back to "perceived manualness as if it is some unique thing to a certain transmission type. Hint, my 89 AT Bronco can be selectively shifted so I'm not sure what your point is here.
Fourth, out of all of the mentioned transmissions, leaving CVTs out of it, the torque converter transmission is the most parasitic and in many cases a high performance iteration will not hold the same power levels as its clutched siblings.
Fifth, the fact that a TC has to perform a physical lockup to simulate a solid link can be felt and in certain instances will cause a delay in responsiveness despite how well it performs 98% of the time.
Sixth, as far as responsiveness goes a properly designed DCT will trump all do the very nature of its designed. That said a properly designed DCT is not cheap.
As said before I'm not arguing preferences. If you like your AT more power to you, and it's great. I do not like the feel of a TC and as such do not drive vehicles that have them if at all avoidable. My only issue is with the blatant falsehoods and logical, (illogical is perhaps a better word here), leaps you make to justify your choice. Just own your choice don't make up fantasies and fallacies as to why you are correct.
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