Quote:
Originally Posted by jpkirk
So how do you not start a debate with what you have just stated?
So ... your and my comments will probably get this locked, or me banned, because religion seems to be a topic that should not be discussed here ... that said here I go ...
I am a Christian in the greatest sense of the word. I go to a Baptist church but their rules and philosophy do not rule me. Christ rules me. A foundation of the Christian faith. I found freedom in my faith. I say this because I also used to spend significant time in my life worrying about why people hate so much and do such heinous things in the name of their religion. It was when I found out that Jesus identified this issue, and that, as you say, people are entitled to make decisions in their life, that my eyes were opened and the greatest freedom realized. People, through faith and repentance, are forgiven their errors in judgment. At the core of Christianity is love. The two greatest commandments are love God and love your neighbor as yourself. Once we understand that people are the ones making decisions (free will), good or bad, then we can separate it from the vision presented by Jesus.
People are! Just because they choose to do something that does not seem to ring true with Christianity does not make Christianity or any faith bad. This is the same argument used for gun control. People make poor choices about how to use their firearms. Does that make guns bad? No, it makes the people who use guns to murder bad. Yet, as a Christian, I am called to love everyone. Does that mean there are no repercussions for the one who murders? By no means. Rather than hate the one who murders, pray for them, that they see the error of their ways and accept the repercussions.
Further discussion can be done through PM's if you like.
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I don't see this conversation getting either of us banned (though maybe I'm wrong). This is an off topic lounge and the OP simply asked an open ended question. As you and I both hinted at, though... there may be a better forum for it in general.
I agree with you that it often does come down to people and their individual choices. However, you can look in the news daily and find sad or disturbing events perpetuated by individuals/groups that use their faith (whether christian or other) to do awful things to other people/groups. In these cases, it is either their religion that has guided them to do this, or it has strengthened their predisposition to those acts by allowing them to believe that they have their god on their side.
If more religious people believed (and lived their life) as you describe you live yours, it probably wouldn't be a problem. However, since so many of them specifically use the teachings of their religion to guide their actions, religion must be held accountable to some degree. There is no mantra in guns to commit harm. They are inanimate objects. There is, however, plenty of specific, scripture based dogma across nearly every major religion (especially the judeo-christian ones) to create division and disdain for other groups or actions.
I agree with you. Love thy neighbor. Live and let live. I simply found that I didn't need the idea of a god or a faith to embrace that idea in my own life. And to me, that is an important distinction when there are so many instances of deities showing hatred and malice across the religious texts. I found their behaviour to be not in line with (what should be) the core concept of their respective religions.
Let me be clear. I have no hatred or ill will towards you or other religious people who only use their belief system to better their own lives and the community around them. My problem comes when people use their personal beliefs about religion to attempt to force others to conform to them, or when they are used to perpetuate violence and division.
peace.