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Originally Posted by Mr&Mrs
Do people really think Microsoft didnt know this? They were willing to stretch their necks to try and make the next step. Which is DRM controlled by the developers. It backfired pretty bad on them  |
I would say, the extent that Microsoft knows this or cares is debatable. It certainly did seem that they were more interested in catering to the developers. I'm not saying that the developers shouldn't make money, but a balance does need to be struck. The way the whole Xbox One reveal has been handled so far did have quite a bit of hubris.
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Originally Posted by Mr&Mrs
I wasnt blaming Sony for anything. If thats how you and others took it let me explain. People were basically saying how smart Sony was, and how awesome they were at E3 (yet the majority agree their game line up is limp). I was simply saying exactly what you did. Its Business 101, doesn't impress me, I would expect a company to do that on the other end. I was just trying to take away some of the credit people were giving them.
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I think Shadoquad covered this one pretty well already. All I'd have to add is, this isn't Microsoft's first rodeo. This is their third gaming console, not to mention countless other product releases. Sony may not deserve a ton of credit for doing what businesses do, but Microsoft should receive a ton of blame for not doing what businesses in their position should do.
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Originally Posted by Mr&Mrs
I say those things but the truth is I only lend games to my father in law anymore, and I have maybe sold 3 games in the last 7 years. I do not have the time to beat games in one day like when I was a child. So by the time I can trade one or sell it, it makes me feel better to just keep it. Since I usually pick them up on release day/week and pay 60.00 it is to much of a loss in my eyes.
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Personally, I sold a bunch of my old video games a few months ago and was able to turn a pile of discs sitting on my coffee table into a new Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 at Best Buy. They had an extra 50% trade in offer, and I took advantage of it. So I see the value of trading in used games. If you don't, you don't have to. I just like the option of being able to, and having choice amongst locations to trade them into for a better price.
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Originally Posted by Mr&Mrs
So the revolution to me would be not accumulating anymore discs like I did over the last 15 years or so. It would be nice to take my Xbox One anywhere I want and with a simple internet connection access my games anywhere in the world. Yeah I get that some places do not have internet so being able to play offline would be a nice benefit. This is where my term "pig headed" comes into play. In the last 5-10 years how many places have you been to that do not have internet access? In the next 5-10 years how may of those places do you think will still not have internet? Come on people it just isnt a valid argument to me. It is something to gripe about.
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Using your example, isn't it just as easy to take your console somewhere and then play those same games without an Internet connection? As for me personally, I've been tons of places in the last decade that did not have Internet.
When I was stuck at Camp Shelby in Mississippi for several months before being deployed. Then at Kuwait, and then in Iraq. Granted, those are extreme cases, but hey, you asked. I'm also going to with my g/f to visit her grandmother in Alabama in a few weeks, and she doesn't have Internet in the mountains either.
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Originally Posted by Mr&Mrs
Here is something to think about.
Out of 70 million Xbox owners over 46 million that own the system have Xbox Live. (Reference here: Systems Sold and here Live Subscribers) That is pretty outstanding if you consider the PS3 network being free up to this point. With the new generation that is now an even playing field. Who knows how many out of those 70 million have internet access as well. I would be willing to bet it is a rather large amount. |
That is certainly a large number, depending on how you look at it. Numbers can always be misleading. 70 million Xbox owners, does that count for 70 million unique owners, or are the people who had to buy multiple Xbox's counted more than once? Either way, I don't see it as that impressive since if you bought an Xbox, you are pretty much forced to pay for Live unless you only want to play single player games. You can't even use the browser or stream videos without paying for Live.
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Originally Posted by Mr&Mrs
I can understand peoples excitement with the PS4's support of indie game developers. Microsoft has support for them as well but it costs more. Does that keep a lot the indie developers away? You betcha!
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Do most Indie games fail? Sure. But, you mentioned you wanted a revolution in gaming. The DRM thing in my opinion would create more business as usual. It would create a safety net for developers. If you make a game with limited replay value, no big deal. Everyone still has to pay you full price to play that game. The way I view used games is simple. If I sell my Z, I do not have to go back to Nissan and give them a cut. Why should a used game be any different? Developers are trying to shift the risk onto the consumers. Its their problem if they buy a bad game and they have no way to recoup any of their losses. Developers are the business, if they can't make a profitable game, they need to learn to cut their costs and create better games more efficiently that people will not want to resell. Adding Indie developers brings in new talent and new ideas, not just ideas on how to take more money from consumers.
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Originally Posted by Mr&Mrs
Back to a little Business 101 here. The number 1 goal of any business should be making money, and keeping a money flow in the realm of profits, at least that's what I would do. Microsoft any Sony alike have lost their shirts on the last generation. Read this: 360 and PS3 loses
If we have another 8-10 years of those losses I do not think we will see another round of these debates. 99% of indie games are flops just like the movies. Why eat up resources catering to everyone that can do some simple 2D or 3D animations. Lets charge some money and weed out some of the wastes of time and server space.
Maybe that is why Microsoft went with a little cheaper RAM (DDR3) and a slightly lower performing GPU even though it is currently a 150.00 unit. Maybe they will make 5.00 off the new systems. Shame on them right?  I am blown away by so many people thinking things should be free. If everything was free we wouldnt have the things we have today.
Luckily both of these companies have massive revenue in other sectors. This sector will not last for ever though if it continues to be a money pit.
I hope one of these two companies set themselves up for some profit this time around so we can continue to have these items of entertainment. |
They may be losing money on the actual console itself, but they make that up in other areas.
Sony still selling PS3s at a loss | PLAY Magazine
Initially, Sony was losing 13 cents per dollar on the PS3, they drove that down to 6 cents per dollar. So they're currently only losing 18 dollars per PS3 sold. That is on the console only. They make up a lot of money selling extra controllers, etc. They also make money selling the licensing to developers. Having a system also allows them to keep their first party studios in business, which also makes money. They sell the consoles at a loss, so they can make up their money from selling you games and accessories.
I also don't think Sony is wasting massive resources on Indies, I think they're just not getting in their way.
I don't think anything should be free, and neither do Sony or Microsoft. They're businesses, and they've calculated the risks. They've felt that taking a small loss on the console is easily made up elsewhere. An 18 dollar loss per console is not a big one. Do you really think that a controller costs them 50 dollars to make? They sell you one controller and they've most likely at least broken even. Everything after that second controller is profit, including licensing fees from third parties.
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Originally Posted by Mr&Mrs
Good its hard to read someones text and know their attitude/demeanor. I love the input man it allows me to come back with more response to questions others may have but not asked. SO heres some more spice for your   |
All in all, I agree with a lot of your points. You have certainly spent a lot of time in your research. As you said before there's more than one way to skin this cat. Which way works best will be playing out over the next few months. If anything, the fact that people can argue and debate it so much indicates how close the two products actually are.