Invoice is not *true* invoice. It really depends on the volume and other factors. You can do your own research on the Net to find out the skinny on other ways dealers are making money.
It is a business and yes they do need to make a living. In general if its a volume based dealership, 500-1000 over invoice is a fair place to be at IMHO for them to make sufficient money and survive. Why? Because plenty of dealers do just that and they are in business successfully.
I would go in at 500 over invoice for an order: all they need to do is hit a few buttons. There is no lost cost having car on the lot, etc... and see where that goes. On a 40K purchase, sliding up 250 more isn't going to kill you either. This isn't a 20K Accord in high volume where 250 is important as they sell dozens of them a month.
Getting cars for under invoice typically means there is a some sort of MFG incentive going on, or the car has sat on the lot and they need to unload it for its costing them too much to hold it.
You will not see that pricing on a new car...so get used to the idea of paying at least 500 over invoice if you want to order a 2012.
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